Document leaks will force decisionPosted Wednesday, July 28, 2010, at 8:17 AM
The release by WikiLeak of more than 90,000 pages of documents, many classified, about the war in Afghanistan, will probably have the same affect on the war as the release of the Pentagon papers by Daniel Ellsberg had on the Vietnam War.
A public already soured on the war will probably clamor with even greater furor for an early end to American involvement in the war. It's easy to shoot the messenger -- the WikiLeak website that largely provides a useful platform for whistleblowers -- but the true culprits are those who decided to release the documents in the first place, and it is they who should be held criminally accountable. The massive volume of the documents makes it likely that the individual (or individuals) responsible are fairly high up in the information food chain. Because of the internet today, those documents were going to show up somewhere, but at least WikiLeak attempts to vet the information it receives and called on three prestigious and respected newspapers, the New York Times, the Manchester Guardian and Der Speigel, to help it check the veracity of the information. Most of the high points in the documents aren't exactly new. Previous reports have indicated the Pakistani intelligence service has been aiding and abetting the Taliban, and the corruption of the Karzai government in Afghanistan is well known. But the documents provide a level of detail that shows the extent of those activities is much greater than ever suspected by the general public (but apparently well known by policymakers in this and the previous administration). There are technical details about past operations in the reports that probably are already known to the Taliban. But those details will shock some people. Anyone who's been in combat won't be surprised, but those who haven't will discover that war is not very pretty. It's like making sausage. You really don't want to know the nitty gritty details. For example, innocent civilians in war zones get killed. It happens. Whenever bullets and bombs are being tossed around, anybody in the area is likely to become a victim. These documents will almost certainly give a better handle on how many civilians have died in this war, better than the vague estimates tossed around in the past, but one thing that's important to remember is how few there really are in comparison to past wars. In WWII, both the Germans and the Allies deliberately targeted civilians. Today, we try to avoid it at all costs. In fact, the United States is the only country in the world that has both the technical capability and the desire to limit civilian deaths. But limit does not mean zero. And while civilian deaths have dropped significantly since the Obama administration took over, the highly restrictive new rules of engagement that have helped protect civilians have come at the cost of risking the lives of our own troops. The real problem with the release of these documents is going to be in area of geostrategy and politics, especially as it relates to our relations with many of our allies. This is where some of the disclosures are likely to be most disadvantageous to the United States. We wouldn't be surprised if some allies, who privately may be reluctant right now to be involved in this war, use it as an excuse to back out. And it almost certainly will fan the flames of those in this country who want to see an immediate end to American involvement, which almost certainly was the intent of those who leaked the documents. War and geopolitics are not for the faint of heart and the curtain on this war has been pulled aside for all to see. The genie is out of the bottle. The question now becomes, what do we do with that knowledge and can we place it in its proper context? At the least, it now forces the American electorate to make some decisions we may have been avoiding, and could have a significant impact on this fall's elections. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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We "NEED" to do the two things that will never happen.
1. Take war OUT of the hands of the politicians and let the COMMANDERS run it.
2. Keep the press OUT.
It's too badthis information wasn't released sooner. The american people deserve to know what is going on with it's tax money, sons and daughters. I'm appauled by the attempt at trying to justify this war by saying "important to remember is how few there really are in comparison to past wars". This country should not be responsible for any deaths whether here or half way across the world. This "war" needs to end. If these "documents" helps that happen I say Kinkos needs to start making copies to send to every person in America so they see what is really going on in this crusade that Bush started instead of being blinded by the glossy coat the gov't and press put on this horrid situation.
sorry, let me correct myself. Bush may not have started this war but he sure pushed hard to get it to the point it is now. Imo, that man is no better than other warlord looking for blood to satisfy their money issues.
Oh, and bazookaman, keeping the press out and leaving all military decisions might work in some situations but if you just look in the past where military has had total control over what it does....let's jsut say it doesnt end well and is not good for anyone. Not just us.
Actually, it works pretty well. We gave Eisenhower what he and his generals needed.
At the same time, we gave Nimitz what HE needed.
"Rosie the riviteer" worked in the factories, the guys enlisted, AMERICANS all got on the same sheet of paper, and we came from BEHIND.........to whip the Japs and the Nazis in 3 and a half years, over a two-ocean war.
Diplomacy doesn't work on rabid dogs, tardyjay..............ya gotta kill 'em or let 'em be.
Vietnam lasted as long as it did...........for the same reason Iraq/Afghanistan is dragging on today:
Lack of spine, lack of ability to make the necessary decisions, and no go-nads in the White House.
Everybody wants results, tardyjay..........but nobody wants to do what you have to do to get them.
Our military has NEVER had "TOTAL" control, but World War II was MOSTLY under miltary control.............
3 and a half years. And it was DECISIVE.
Hasn't been since.
Civilians should NEVER have a say, after a war has been declared. They sit back on their butts while the military has to fight it.........so they shouldn't be calling the shots.
Ya don't play the game............you've got no business making the rules. Particularly over life & death.
You give the guys who HAVE to do the dirty work---------what they ask for--------then you step out of the way.
But no..........oh no.......not US these days. Today the "wars" are started and MICRO-MANAGED by the KNOW-NOTHINGS whose "degrees" make them "experts all of a sudden, and the press not only displays our troop strengths and positions all over the friggin' internet, but seeks to destroy troop morale for personal sensationalism, as they look for every opportunity to descredit our own people everytime some civilian gets killed over there.
Yeah baby........let's get ourselves some HEADLINES, write books and discuss movie rights. let's play politics and make the troops pay for it.
This government SUCKS and so does the press. They are no better than the communists we have fought from one clash to the next, and it always falls on the backs of those who ARE willing to fight for the "milk & honey" we have here.
We could end this war inside of a week, and if I was running things at the Pentagon, I would not allow ONE "boot on the ground", while we have the means to actually "take care of business."
This war is as stupid as the one I was in, and so are the numbskulls in D.C.
Man, Bazooka, I feel sorry for you sometimes. Your perception of reality is constantly off center. Giving free reign to military commanders would be more akin to Hitler and his germany. Our military, even during WWII answered to Washington, no matter what you think. As for your Nam, that was lost simply because the otherside was more committed to the battle then America was. Further, further, further,....the leaked papers aren't going to do chit. Their memory will soon fade out and the populous will forget the impact that they should have had. These stinky papers will mean nothing, because the American people are too focused on political/cultural divisions to care about some war that they can't see or feel.
The "milk and honey" always goes to the "Rich" not to the "We". And Trickle Down really means Trickle up,...against the laws of nature.
Smoke some of that random weirdness Bazooka.
Bazooka,
As usual WELL SAID SIR! Seriously have to wonder at times do pompous characters like censored honestly believe the pathetic rambling bull that they spew? Have a safe trip Bazooka and smile November IS COMING!!!
Censored, what are you smoking thats got you so high. To state North Vietnam was more committed to battle than America during the Vietnam was is something that would come out of the month of a nut case, a person that knows nothing about war as it appears you know nothing about Vietnam. The military did everything they were allowed to do then which wasn't much due to the Micro-Managed idiots in DC that thought they knew better. Like don't bomb where it may hurt the Norths military or supplies. Alot of bombs where dropped out in the middle of no where cause the pilots weren't allowed to drop them on the emeny. One thing for sure censored telling the people that were part of the Vietnam war wasn't a smart move on your part, still to many Vets that served over there still around. Just for the record I was part of it from 1967 to 1968.
WE LOST NOTHING......THE POLOTICS OF VIETNAM WAS WELL DOCUMENTED......FIELD COMMANDERS SHOULD BE GIVEN THE AUTHORITY TO PROSECUTE A CONFLICT AS THEY SEE FIT WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE POLITICAL AGENDA.....THERE IS NO COMPARISON BETWEEN WW2 AND THE NAM......2 DIFFERENT WARS WITH 2 DIFFERENT POLITICAL AGENDAS.......the papers as released solve nothing....they are operational....they at best should be looked at from analytical view....we should have let this conflict go a long time ago......im not going to get into dem vs rep.....the polotics of this war is wrong and has been from the start.......we equate prudence with defeat and that is just plain stupid
The biggest difference I see between WW-II and 'Nam, is that in 'Nam...........the U.S. was never attacked like we were at Pearl. There was absolutely NO reason to put troops in Vietnam.
Vietnam was just one more case of sticking our noses into something that didn't concern us.............and then MICRO-MANAGING while the troops are paying the price.
Just like today. No "commander-in-chief" (Dem OR Rep), should EVER commit our military to anything we don't intend to WIN.
What we are doing today is NOT avenging 9/11. Bush should have gone into Afghanistan and stomped Bin laden from the outset.
The mishandling of this "war" is squarely on Bush's shoulders, but Obama hasn't learned anything from it either, and instead of reaching for B-52's, he TOO is now talking about more "boots on the ground" over there.
Our troops shouldn't be fighting within the confines of any political agenda. We shouldn't fight for ANYTHING political. We should fight when WE are attacked..........and then........do a quick, thorough job of it, so the "next tyrant" will think twice before HE starts something.
Pretty poor....when your kids ask you what you were fighting for............and you don't know.
I DO know THIS though............it should be a pre-requisite for ANYBODY running for the White House to have military experience. No one should ever be allowed to send American troops into fields of death, without knowing THEMSELVES what is involved.
How can one be an effective "commander-in-chief" when one has never even commanded a squad?
Like Elena Kagan.............a would-be "Supreme Court Judge"...........the highest court in the land...........yet NO judicial experience.
How stupid is THAT?
O-dark-thirty on Tuesday morning can't come soon enough. As some of you know, I'm rolling out of here to see the Wall. I just hope we don't need to build ANOTHER wall because of this continued stupidity.
Like my old man used to say, "we need to s--t or get off the pot.
PS to Eagle Eye---------I was there in 67 & 68 myself...........who were you with, Bro?
November will be here soon,, bye bye Liberal Progressive Socialists,
94 days
but who is counting:) Have a safe trip Mike. Take care of yourself. See you on the return bud.
Counting? Who's counting?
"We'll start to be free--------in ninety three!"
Thanks Missy.........Got a few last minute things to do tomorrow, then I'll be rolling out somewhere around "0-dark-thirty" Tuesday morning.
I'll be ok. Always am. Donna couldn't get enough time off from work to go with me, even though she has MORE than enough on the books. (normal for up THERE), but I'll have a pair of pretty close friends with me. I think you know both of them......"Mr Smith and Mr Wesson"
I'll be just fine. Tell Rich hi for me, & I'll see you guys when I get back.
92.
It'll be 76 days to go when I get back.........and that's a neat number to return on!
Hey..............along those lines, I just heard on the news where, in an incredible stroke of honesty, Nancy Pelosi just admitted that she "doesn't know what's going on at the moment."
..........at the MOMENT??? (They'll probably send Gibbs out in the next few days to explain it).
Although this is going to be a "get-away from it all" trip, I'm still looking forward to listening to people as I travel state-to-state.
It'll be a "poll" I can actually give some credibility to, because no media will be involved. Just what I hear at Denny's, various motels where I'll be staying, other tourists in D.C., etc.
I DO expect things to start sounding goofy the further east I go, but I'm not going to read INTO anything, because I'll be among the different voters themselves, WITHOUT the aid of CNN or FOX.
I'll be listening and taking notes as I go, and I'll tell you what I hear when I get back.
i think that someone forgot why there is a military.....we are the fist of the politics to put it simply......b52 to solve everthing,i really have a problem with that we are again at the point of a weapon.....i will say it again do you know what happens to the bully on the block??..thats not what we should be.......i dont like how this crape is being prosecuted either,and i have said so but for god sake be constructive....and your remark on miss kagan was un called for.....there have been many supreme court justices without judical experience.....and they have been among the best.....so says repubs and dems.....sometimes you really go off half cocked....while your out there try listening to everyone not just people who voice what you want to hear.....i know that will be hard but try......and dont prejudge the people of the east......we are not what you make us out to be......but you are a very judgemental guy arnt you???????? drive safe
Nobody liked the "bully on the block."
But nobody SCREWED with him either.
As a country, not many like US either, unless we're giving them stuff, and even THEN, they bad-mouth us.
To answer the question............we have a military to keep OUR country safe, not everyone else's.
We spend the money to build the advanced hardware so our troops do NOT have to take an unnecessary beating.............especially from 3rd world countries.
If some creep is breaking into my house in the middle of the night with a switchblade, am I supposed to be "socially correct" and play this game on HIS terms?
No. I will counter this knife-carrying thug with my 12-gauge.
I have NEVER been a fan of Harry Truman, but realizing the potential losses of an all-out invasion of the Japanese home island, he ordered the 2 bombs to be dropped. The Japanese quickly surrendered and there was no more gunfire.
It works.................you just have to GET THEIR ATTENTION.
Why do you suppose nobody goes after the Russians?.............they don't TOLERATE that kind of crap and the world knows it! There was a time when WE didn't either, but boy has THAT changed!
I saw a very interesting exhibit at the Smithsonian last week while in D.C.
In the American History Museum, in the American culture section, is Archie & Edith Bunker's chairs, along with that little table where he kept his ashtray and beer.
Originally intended as 70's satire, the liberal producer Norman Lear intentionally made Archie Bunker play the fool in his political exchanges with the "meathead."
But as I left the building, I couldn't help but to think about how MUCH "Archie" talked about has actually CAME TO PASS, and we're seeing it right now!
the russians have been attacked by terrorist also........only they keep it to themselfs and go after the perpetrators....werever they are....we should do the same..... A bombs were used because there was a NATIONAL WILL to resist not because the generals wanted to continue......there is a difference....there is no national will to take us on.....you dont kill hundreds of thousands to stop a couple of hundred......you go after them with a no holds bared attitude.....and sometimes we dont seem to get that......and thats what our special operators are for......we train em lets use em......
Absolutely. It's hard to believe that with the technology and spy systems we have in-place, that we couldn't find and kill Bin Laden and the rest of the "elite."
Bush was more intent on "finishing his daddy's war" in Iraq.
Bin Laden is well over 6 feet tall, has to depend on DIALYSIS to live...............and WE can't find him???
When you cross the Russians, their KGB will hunt you down to the end of the earth and snuff your butt out. Your FAMILY will usually "disappear" as well. They are NOT "PC" and do not put up with crap that WE now do.
The Japanese were indeed going to fight to the last man, woman and child, which would have meant the loss of an entire culture.
Truman also knew how much more American blood it would have taken to do more of this "boots on the ground" business.
We had the big hammer available to us, and Truman simply said "Enough of this"
Dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki actually SAVED more lives (on both sides), than an all-out invasion would have eventually taken.
We've become too "bureaucratic" and "politically correct" to deal with the vermin anymore..............which is why there are over 58,000 names on a wall I just looked at a couple of weeks ago...........why we are still losing troops NEEDLESSLY today while these 5th-rate countries continue to threaten us.
Vietnam lasted 14 years. THIS one has been going 7 or 8 so far. Should have and COULD have been over inside of a week, at VERY little cost to our economy------------the weapons needed to take care of this have long been paid for and stockpiled.
This is what happens when we stop being Americans and start been diplomats.
The "bullies" of the world.........just like the old "bullies" back on the block, only target the people that they think will NOT fight back.
That's why everybody's looking for a little piece of us over the past 10 years or so. We wanna be "everybody's friend"............which to many, is a sign of weakness, and an engraved invitation.
Dead on the money, Lamont............."we train 'em, let's USE 'em."
POSTNOTE**..........While I was visiting my daughter and son-in-law at Wright-Patteron a couple of weeks ago, I saw "Bock's Car" in the museum there............"Bock's Car" is the B-29 that dropped the SECOND bomb on Nagasaki. Most people just remember the Enola Gay, that hit Hiroshima with the first one.
If you like airplanes, the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson, Ohio (Dayton), should be a MUST SEE, at least once in your lifetime.
If it ever flew........it's probably there.