The Same Trench, But “Different”

Posted Tuesday, March 13, 2012, at 9:22 AM

Lamont & I conversed awhile today, as we often do, and the subject of that recent Afghanistan killing came up. During our conversation, he brought something up that I haven't really spent a lot of time on, but I can definitely see where it all ties in together.

He and I have both spent tours in 'Nam, and although those tours were in different capacities, we see a lot of things from "behind the sandbags" on the same scale........even as we differ politically on many other things.

I'm a bit reluctant to even POST this, because it'll most likely bring out the "non-player university wizards" who have never spent a day in actual combat, nor even in uniform for that matter.

But Lamont really brought a few things up that I quickly agree with, and I'm gonna share it publicly. He was watching the news today----I was not, and he shared some things they were saying.

First of all....that Army SSgt was in his FOURTH tour over there. (ONE should be enough). How many times should a U.S. troop HAVE to fight in a foreign country? Especially in a war this country is NOT committed to win?

On a PREVIOUS tour, this guy suffered BRAIN INJURY......but was STILL "rehabilitated" and cleared to go back over yet AGAIN. THAT should have been a 'red flag" right there.

Once you've seen some 'trigger time", and LEAVE the country, even for awhile........your mindset changes when you have to go back. I had a 7-day "R&R" in Hawaii about a month after Khe Sanh, and having come close to being killed the FIRST time, it was an "inner-struggle" to get back on the plane back to DaNang.

Three and Four tours............man, that's just spinning the "roulette wheel."

But they keep sending our same troops over there time and again, because there's nobody else! We stopped the draft in the mid-70's.

This is ALSO the reason that the "civilians" back HERE aren't out in the streets and marching on Washington to either WIN THIS THING OR GET OUT!

Lamont & I talked at length on that, this afternoon, one old warrior to the other. During "OUR WAR", as he & I call it.........our young people (some of whom destined to be senators, congressmen and even President).........KNEW they could be drafted and HAVE to go and fight someplace where they didn't want to.

Because so many WERE drafted, there were always "replacements" for active duty troops who were killed, wounded, or simply got OUT at the end of their enlistments. But in an "all volunteer force", they have to keep "re-cycling" the same guys who are ALREADY FATIGUED from this on-going crap.

And the politicians are running this war the exact same way they ran OURS...............lots of people making MONEY off of it...........the troops are still "handcuffed" by stupid rules, regulations, and IGNORANT "rules of engagement"..........and once again, we have nobody at the top willing to use the "big hammer."

No.....not us.......we're still gonna be "politically correct", "diplomatic"........and put "Boots on the ground".............and "win the hearts and minds of the "people"-------and introduce democracy to those who've been slaughtering each other for CENTURIES.....and will AGAIN as soon as we leave.

The RINO McCain wants us to stick our nose into Syria. STUPID------just STUPID.

I'm with Lamont 100% in bringing BACK the draft. Most civilians today don't give the war anywhere NEAR the attention they give everything else............because if it doesn't CONCERN you directly.......you really do not have a "dog in the fight", do you?

If ENOUGH people knew that "they might be NEXT"........they'd have all their little chicken butts out there PROTESTING....Dems & Reps alike....and FORCE this government to either WIN IT or GET US OUT.

All we've been doing since 9/11, is wasting good men & women.....and spending a ton of money doing it. This war was SUPPOSED to be about retaliation for 9/11. Bush takes us into Iraq instead, and then EVENTUALLY into Afghanistan. At the VERY LEAST....after the killing of Bin Laden.......THAT should have been IT!

It won't be. Campaigns are in full swing "more important" right now, but the "POLITICAL mindset" in D.C. is no different in THIS war, than it was in OURS.

We are NOT serious about winning anything..........and as long as we aren't, we have no right to send our troops where they don't belong---------and then NOT support them. (by the Constitution, we have no right to send them where they don't belong ANYWAY).

The POLITICIANS don't have to do it........most of our population (including many of YOU out there will never have to do it), and those who DO have the guts, are over there dying for NOTHING............................just like in "OUR war," and Lamont & I stand side-by-side on this one, EQUALLY mad!

The trenches in Afghanistan and the trenches of Vietnam were pretty much the same in many aspects, but WE at least had replacements. Our kids do NOT. One guy over there has apparently "had enough"..........and FOUR TOURS is MORE than enough, when you're laying it all out there.....for the SPINELESS back here.

On a side note from ol' "Zook" HIMSELF..........that guy killed 16 "innocent people". Obama has ALREADY "apologized" to "Commie Karzai" for that.

At the Twin Towers, we lost over THREE THOUSAND innocent people........plus the thousands of our troops so far.............and NOBODY's "apologized for THAT!................so the way I figure it, the "bad guys" are STILL abut 6,000 deaths AHEAD of us!

So....if you're TIRED of these stupid wars.....BRING BACK THE DRAFT!.....and there WILL be some HEAT put on Washington, when EVERYBODY has to "ante-up."

Oh.............and one other thing along a slightly different subject...........LIMBAUGH apologized for HIS remark----------------Bill Mahar has NOT and has since CONTINUED his dirty remarks, THIS time on Santorum's KIDS!

.....the dems keep going after Rush........while Obama accepts "Mahar's Million".............

And now, TEXAS..............you can't cash a check or get on a plane without an ID...........................but you can VOTE!

Yet ANOTHER "Uncle Eric" special!

Some of you out there are "offended" when I question this government about ANYTHING..........but how many times can you turn your head, (even in PRIVATE).......and pretend NOT to see?

I fully understand the plight, struggle and torment of our TROOPS though-------and so does Lamont.

Comments

View 56 comments

Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. Please note that those who post comments on this website may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.

I think in the Battle of The Bulge in WWII, they had to send soldiers over that were battle-fatigued or barely trained. It was a sad commentary on our country.

What is curious, is that you don't see the media wanting to get the soldiers side of the story, only the headline of Obama's apology.

And then they piously say Please Support Our Troops.

If an illegal immigrant will lie to an employer with fake ID, how can we trust our voting requirements. How can you vote, if you can't even read the ballot?

You know what happens eventually when dirt is swept under the carpet? the piles get higher and more noticeable. Pretty soon, you are walking on a carpet that has lumps. Those who continue to deny that there is a problem have lost all feeling in their feet and seem to be blind also.

-- Posted by KH Gal on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 11:55 AM
I just betcha the reason the media isn't telling the solders side of the story, he is under lock and key and no reporter is going to get to him.

He shouldn't of been in Afghanistan after already being deployed to Iraq 3 times. PTSD comes to mind.

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 12:23 PM
The "wars" in Nam, Iraq, and Afghanistan were doomed from the start. I just don't understand why so many here don't get it. Nam was a civil war, Korea was a civil war, Iraq was a civil war. Afghanistan is now a civil war. The neo-cons in the Republican party is who should own all the blame for these last 2 "wars". Now there are Republicans calling for 2 more "wars". WE HAVE LOST ENOUGH TROOPS FOR THESE REPUBLICAN WARS! Eisenhower got it right when he said beware the military industrial complex. The only ones who have gained anything in these "wars" are the ones who make and sell arms!

You can call Obama what ever you want, but the one thing you can't pin on him is getting us into a stupid unwinnable conflict.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 12:41 PM
I don't know if you know it or not, Mike but, this kid was also having marital problems and difficulty reintegrating into society when he came back from his last tour.

Being the spouse of someone in the military I know how much these deployments can take a toll on a marriage. You don't feel like you know the person when they get back. You spend up to a year all by yourself and have to move on with life the best way you can. Learning to do things by yourself, take care of the kids, and pay the bills. When the spouse gets back from deployment, they have also had to learn to do things without you and it just makes for a bad situation. Now, try going through that 2,3,4 times and you can see how that would take a toll on anyones mind.

With all of that going on, they some how 'cleared' the kid. I don't believe he should totally be held responsible. There were a lot of red flags and I don't think he should have been cleared. But, that goes back to what you were saying about them not caring and needing people over there. I'm with you on the draft.

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 12:48 PM
I have a question for you Military guys

My son was to be deployed with the Army this May.

The mission was canceled, and the unit he is in isn't going. He wants to go so he put in to go and was accepted. He's going to go over to Afghanistan without his unit. My question, has this ever been done before?

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 2:11 PM
I'm with you and Lamont. Bring back the draft - NO EXCEPTIONS! (that includes gays, congressman's kids, etc). Then we'll see how many useless wars the politicians get us in. And sorry Mr Pratt, you're wrong about Republicans getting us into all the wars, as Buckshot so aptly proved. That's the great thing about the internet and other media. You can always fact-check the lines people are trying to feed you.

-- Posted by Second Wind on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 2:45 PM
I only mentioned the Battle of the Bulge, because they had the same problem eventually. I know that WWII was something legitimate.

They really should not send soldiers directly home after combat. There should be a waiting period with counseling available to them before they try to go back and adjust to civilian life again.

Battle Fatigue is nothing new, but it is shameful how the military have used this young people for the past 10 years.

-- Posted by KH Gal on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 2:53 PM
Interesting link Buckshot, but if you take WW1 and WW2 out of the mix, things change. Those were the last 2 WARS declared by Congress. Oh I forgot to mention WW2 American Territory was attacked and occupied. Both parties have had their share of wars, declared and otherwise.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 3:00 PM
Mike, would you care to attempt to prove Obama is a Muslim? Would anyone else care to try and prove that?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 3:02 PM
How can you prove anything on this guy? Barack Obama promised to run the most transparent White House in history but, has went out of his way to seal his records.

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 3:16 PM
When you go out of your way and pay lots of money to seal records, it leads to speculation. "What's he hiding," is the thought of a lot of people. So, I 'speculate' he is a muslim.

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 3:17 PM
Here is a cute little link from one of those right wing, nutjob websites. These idiots even came up with a catchy website name, 'letfreedomring.com'. I KNOW that since they are questioning Obama that they could care less about freedom or even hearing it ring.

What is that smell? 'sniff', 'sniff'..... Is that sarcasm?

http://lettingfreedomring.com/2012/02/22/the-mystery-of-barack-obama-continues/

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 3:29 PM
And speculation is just another way of saying character assassination. You decried it when it was done to your side, but it's OK for you guys. How very enlightening.

Back to wars. Vietnam was the "We must stop the commies, or all of Southeast Asia will fall." Remember those words? The only thing that fell was S. Vietnam, and that was because the people there for the most part didn't give a darn about their country, they just wanted to be left alone. It is also interesting that Vietnam is becoming an economic force to be dealt with in Southeast Asia.

Buckshot, Libya cost us no lives.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 3:39 PM
Uh Mike, we went into Afghanistan in 2001, Iraq in 2003.

Uh, Buckshot, WW1 and WW2 were REAL wars! What part of my post didn't you get?

What ever happened to innocent until proved guilty? Or does that only apply to the far right?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 3:48 PM
Uh, Mike, WW2 was won by the allies, not just us, remember? The British, the French, the Aussies? the Canadians. WE didn't win the war, we helped.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 3:52 PM
Buckshot, your saying the Democrats invited the Japaneses to bomb Pearl Harbor? Or the Germans to sink the Lusitania? Do you realize how crazy that sounds?

Like I said, WW1 and WW2 can be taken out of the mix because they were declared wars, not this manure we have now, and what is being pushed by some very stupid people.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 3:56 PM
Uh, Roy, maybe it's the way that Obama has bowed down to all the muslim countries and apologized to them for America, the arrogant, hateful nation? Why does someone with nothing to hide have his records sealed?

Don't mean to change topics here, but check out the Homeowner's Alert I posted on the Banter Box. This will blow you away! More change we can believe in!

-- Posted by Second Wind on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 4:01 PM
Second Wind: I have no problem changing the subject. Your "Homeowner's Alert" might be a tad misleading. Are you trying to be misleading or are you just being lazy?

-- Posted by bondyweb on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 4:23 PM
SW, I answered your post on another blog and the banter box and now here.

http://financialducksinarow.com/4100/the-tax-on-sale-of-your-home-email-myth/

Mike, I was taking about those idiots that want to start wars with Syria and Iran.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 4:26 PM
I'm going to say something I have purposely refrained from because it irritates me to no end when the far right uses it on the "liberals".

SW, how typical of the far right to post half truths bordering on lies.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 4:29 PM
The assumption that a few represents the all is what bothers me Mike. Until today have you ever seen me do that? I have tried to bring a semblance of balance by not doing that, while many do not. You know my views on many subjects. I strongly believe that you would not knowingly let anyone post an outright lie on one of your blogs without challenging them. Left or Right.

Political differences are one thing, lies and character assassination are another.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 4:55 PM
Buckshot, in reference to your link, parts of it are an outright lie in that it includes wars that happened before the Democratic party ever existed.

Buckshot, WW1 and WW2 combined pale by comparison to the civil war started by the Republicans and opposed by the Democrats.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 5:15 PM
FACTS are FACTS and LIES are LIES!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 5:16 PM
No arguments here Mike, and you know it! The HC law is most likely the poorest written piece of manure ever to come out of DC. I can't stand Pelosi or Reid. The original concept of the HC law was noble, affordable healthcare for all Americans. We ended up with a pile of poop instead.

Going to war means going to war, declaration and all. Sticking our noses in other countries affairs because we don't like what they are doing inside their borders is WRONG! Fighting a war over religion is a losing proposition, period.

The domino effect never happened, but way too many of our men were killed or maimed for life.

The Shiites and Sunnis and Kurds will never live in peace. The Jews and Muslims will never live in peace. Meanwhile we are bleeding to death trying to make it happen. I'm sick of it!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 5:40 PM
Mike, you and Lamont both served in Nam, how many of the LOCALS did you really trust?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 5:45 PM
AFTER MY FIRST TOUR ...........NONE.!!!!!!!

Funny how we hold maybe a 6yr old responsible for how he is registered in school,how on one hand we go ballistic about him being in Rev WRIGHT'S church for 20yrs and then when he is not we call him a muslim...... not that it should matter.If you just thought about how that sounds I dont think you would be making that kind of statement,you can't have it both ways.

We the people determine how and what we fight for and we need to remember that.We need to get out of afganistan period.....NOW.I can definetly say I had different feelings when I went back.I stayed a long period of time the first time almost 3 yrs back for one then back over for 18 months more.That was hard enough and I WAS SINGLE.GOING BACK AND FORTH EVERY OTHER YEAR FOR A FRONT LINE TROOP IS TOTALY UNACCEPTABLE.yOU SEE WE DONT SEE IT BECAUSE ONLY CERTAIN PEOPLE ARE SERVING.I say if the whole society had to see it it wouldnt happen.They dont have a stake in it they give lip service it's not there kids who are doing the dyeing.IM getting angry got to go......latter

-- Posted by lamont on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 6:57 PM
Roy, how is me 'speculating', which I am entitled to do, that Obama is a Muslim, character assassination?

Obviously you don't think too highly of Muslims if you think being called one would assassinate ones character.

That would be like someone calling me a Baptist when I'm a Catholic...... who cares?

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Tue, Mar 13, 2012, at 8:48 PM
bazookaman,

That is why I emailed you and Roy. This guy has some issues.

I put a picture of myself (my best side) with my posts, that may help.

-- Posted by Old Vet on Wed, Mar 14, 2012, at 8:03 AM
Buckshot, he and I are acquaintances, big difference. How very typical of the far right.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Wed, Mar 14, 2012, at 9:58 AM
Different poll different results. Obama over Mitt by 12% Rick 29%.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Wed, Mar 14, 2012, at 10:02 AM
If you do the math, you will plainly see Romney is the winner, the others need to drop out...

Romney vs Obama = Obama

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Wed, Mar 14, 2012, at 10:13 AM
I am beginning to feel like a Campbells Soup Can. No more Labels From Anyone!

All this left and Right business is confusing and divisive.

To my friends who lean toward the middle or the left. To my friends who happend to lean toward the right. There are those who believe in these policies, and there are those who advocate these polices.

A simple change of words that can make something less of an accusation and more of a description regarding points of view.

This is beginning to resemble a Punch and Judy show.

I respect everyone's opinon, if I disagree with something, I try to be respectful in my comments.

Before Politics, Religion or any other life issue, I am an American. And I am a child of God.

I try to view everyone as such.

That is my cranky rant for the day.

God Bless You All and God Bless America!

-- Posted by KH Gal on Wed, Mar 14, 2012, at 11:24 AM
KH Gal, that's not a rant, it's a statement and one I agree with.

Not serving in America's military does not preclude my being a true American. Just means I travelled in a different trench at the time.

Kind of like the parallel ruts still visible west of King Hill where the Oregon Trail cuts up toward the foothills versus those on the south side of Three Island crossing.

-- Posted by wh67 on Wed, Mar 14, 2012, at 3:57 PM
Buckshot, have you tried to buy private health insurance in Idaho? There are 3 companies. The quotes I got from all 3 were within a few dollars of each other. What competition?

Will the 2 countries be free to put up trade barriers? Charge tariffs? If an oil pipeline crosses new national borders, what rules will apply? Same for natural gas and gasoline.

Be careful of what you wish for.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, Mar 15, 2012, at 10:59 AM
I would love to see that experiment become a reality. The liberals and conservatives are never ever going to agree on what's wrong with our country - just keep bickering and trying to outdo each other on comments which eventually become nasty and personal. Let you guys have your Obamas, your restrictions on businesses, your restrictions on energy development, all your social programs, and government control, and see how well you fare and how happy you are. Let us have our free market and unrestrained capitalism and see how well we fare. Everyone can have the freedom of choice to move to that area of the country that they most identify with and follow that country's that rules.

-- Posted by Second Wind on Thu, Mar 15, 2012, at 1:50 PM
But, you know what? That idea of separating the two would never work because the libs would never agree to it. If you separated into two different countries, the liberal country and the conservative country, who would pay for the liberal country's social programs?

-- Posted by Second Wind on Thu, Mar 15, 2012, at 2:25 PM
Buckshot, your free market means no competition for health insurance. Sounds like a monopoly to me. I thought those are illegal, or would you like to see them legalized?

Your comment, how typical for the far right.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 6:40 AM
INSURANCE IN IDAHO........3 CARRIERS PRICES WITHIN A FEW DOLLARS OF EACH OTHER AND THAT 'S COMPETITION???????? all three cost to much and you have a choice??? YES.....to have or not to have....great choice,That is not a choice that is a robbery.IF health exchanges will drive the price down I am all for it.

MEDIAN WAGE IN THIS COUNTRY ABOUT $40.000.00 add up all the neccesity's to live and see what you get.But for some reason there is this sense that there is more and we should get it.The citizenery is being bled.Gase priceses are a good example....when admitedely there is no reason for it other than speculation,speculate in the chinesse market why dont ya????WE keep on driving. How about just one day a week, say sunday the whole country says NO we are not going to BUY any gase,I wonder what the oil COS would think of that???????

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 8:54 AM
The free market is supposed to encourage competition and lower prices.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 11:15 AM
Buckshot and Bazooka, did you notice that when we were posting on the "conservative country/liberal country" debate a few posts ago, and several conservatives wrote that they would love to be able to separate into two countrys - one conservative and one liberal, that none of the libs posted that they would like to do that too? In fact, ol' Roy was backpedaling so fast as to why it was a bad idea. The libs wouldn't ever want that to happen. They need our money to fund their social welfare programs.

-- Posted by Second Wind on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 12:46 PM
Yeah, it is funny how SOME of these folks with no ID can find their way to a social security office to file for money, can walk to the store for booze and cigs, can get to the H & W office for a food stamp application, can make it out for their drugs but just cannot seem to make it out to obtain an ID or find a legal job/employment. But SOME of these folks know just where to go to do things that are illegal. Imagine that.

Bet these folks locate ID when it is time to vote.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 1:02 PM
Ooops. wrong place to post Zook. Sorry.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 1:04 PM
SW, never back pedaled, just asked some questions about how trade would be handled. Personally, I think it would be a great idea. The Con states would lose 2 of 3 major areas for ocean shipping ports. I could go on, but I wont.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 1:14 PM
On, second thought, maybe I will. There would be a tariff on everything shipped through the Lib states destined for the Con states. Students wanting to go to schools in the Lib states from the Con states would pay out of state tuition. Sounds fine to me. For the most part, most of the Con states are land locked.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 1:18 PM
SW.......JUST FOR THE RECORD......I DONT NEED YOU FOR SOCIAL WELFARE PROGRAMS.I DONT HAPPEN TO BE INTO SEDITION,TREASON,OR SECESSION.

The only reason I even answer this is that you consider me a liberal......The party line about what people are for and aganist is a one size fits all.I dont think you would like to be put in that barrel AND NEITHER DO I.

I hope you never need a hand from one of those programs and if you do I hope you will say NO.YOU SHOULD WALK A MILE IN THERE SHOES......

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 1:19 PM
Oh, I forgot, if the Cons need lifesaving surgery that is only available in Lib states, they may have to beg for permission for entry and pay cash for the surgery. It just keeps getting better and better.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 3:12 PM
Lamont, I get that people need help sometimes. Some circumstances are beyond our control. Someone might get a serious illness and lose their job. There are mentally and physically handicapped people who truly can't support themselves and need assistance. But, what once might have been good intentions has morphed into these huge government bureaucracies that are now controlling people's lives. Dept of Health & Welfare reported, I forget, how many billions of dollars in welfare fraud last year. There are no systems of checks and balances in place to prevent cheating the system. It used to be that people relied less on the government and more on each other, or maybe their neighbors, their churces, their communities. I think they were happier for it, too. People actually used to get to know their neigbors back then. Extended families lived together so they could help each other. People were more self-reliant before the government decided they needed to get involved in every facet of people's lives. Now the government uses assistance programs to buy votes. They want to get people on the government dole to get us under their control. Nothing is free in life and so it is with social welfare programs. The more assistance the government provides for you, the more you're under their control. IMO, these social programs now are basically just income redistribution programs.

-- Posted by Second Wind on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 4:11 PM
Mr. Pratt, of course there would be issues that would have to be ironed out in the hypothetical liberal country/conservative country. The point is, conservatives would do it anyway just to have their freedom, where as, it seems, libs are putting up road blocks and trying to justify why it couldn't be done. Kind of telling.

-- Posted by Second Wind on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 4:15 PM
SW.....I have stated that these programs are mismanaged and the administrators are not doing there job.I COULD CUT ALL THOSE PROGRAMS BY AT LEAST A THIRD WITHIN 30 DAYS.oUR POLITICIANS WOULD NOT LIKE IT BUT I WOULD NOT CARE.There have been redistribution programs for years it didnt just happen in the last 3.

Think about this......If we had not become such and adversarial society maybe the things you speak of would have continued on a larger scale.I too can remember those days. We created what we have now everyone feels they have to be one better, you see it every day. I dont buy the government in every facet of our lives,it may feel that way but it is not.We created that also we asked for the intrusions because people could not be trusted to make money without screwing the people over that bought the products or services.When in business I could do business on a handshake,IT felt good, by the time I quite you didnt dare.I still trust because I want to believe people are basically good. I get messed over but not very often.

ANYHOW dont blame the people in need blame the people we pay to do a job they are not doing......that is my thoughts.

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 5:06 PM
Lamont, I still believe the free enterprise system would have sorted a lot of this out. If people were screwing other people over on products or services, word-of-mouth alone would have run them out of business. And I'm not blaming the people in need, I'm blaming the people that cheat the system, and the government that doesn't get a handle on all the waste and abuse.

-- Posted by Second Wind on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 5:37 PM
SW.....I agree, but here is one for you I know someone who got messed over some years back with a remodel job they lost about 30 grand and had no recourses guess what we got that we didnt before ......small contractor licensing....including REQUIRED INSURANCES,and a host of other things a lot of guys were forced out of business.The insurance on a roofing contractor for example is so far out there a little guy cannot afford it.

The people that cheat the system can be had if the administraters did there job.There is no quality control on the applications,and then there is NO FOLLOW UP.Blame the local government THEY ADMINISTER THE PROGRAM.

MAKE NO mistake I am not blaming free enterprize I am saying IT has gone so far as to forget things like NATIONAL ALLEGIANCE the only goal cant be to make money at any cost to include the country and it's people.For me you can do both. I never forget my country or it's people and there welfare,to include the jerks.

WELL GOT TO GO..... MUSIC TO PLAY.....LATTER

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 6:26 PM
Oh, Buckshot, you are so right! He immediately claimed the coastline states and is going to slap the conservative country with tariffs. I blew right by that! I'm done blogging for the night but had to thank you for the chuckle. I'm going out with a big smile on my face!

-- Posted by Second Wind on Fri, Mar 16, 2012, at 7:20 PM
I too found it funny the first thing some would do is try and figure a way of screwing the others. And seem mean spirited about it at the same time. Very telling.

-- Posted by skeeter on Sat, Mar 17, 2012, at 7:22 AM
I didn't start this mess, SW did by accusing me of back pedaling when I raised question about trade and resources. What I listed were scenarios should one side or the other become vindictive.

I for one would support such a split. Taken to the extreme, it would mean each side is responsible for their own security.

If left to a popular vote, I'm sure California, Oregon and Washington as well as New York would be members of the Lib states. If that were to happen, that's where the control of most of the major shipping ports reside.

So does everybody still think it's such a great idea?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Mar 17, 2012, at 5:01 PM
ALLOW IN AND DONT...........THERE IT IS !!!!!!!

-- Posted by lamont on Sat, Mar 17, 2012, at 6:53 PM
I'm all in! The idea (or "mess", as you call it) of a liberal country/conservative country is a fantastic idea! I think Zook ought to do a blog on it! And don't be so sure that California wouldn't join us. In case you haven't heard, that state is on the verge of going down in flames. 5 billion in the hole this year, double that number projected for 2013. California is a glaring example of why socialist/liberal ideas don't work. They've got more people on welfare down there than workers that can cover them. I bet right about now they'd be willing to seize on any alternative political system to save their state.

-- Posted by Second Wind on Sat, Mar 17, 2012, at 7:25 PM

Respond to this blog

Posting a comment requires free registration:

If you already have an account, follow this link to login
Otherwise, follow this link to register