"INTERMISSION" for an important message

HOly Crap

That's why I said both sides need to work on this.

We need better Health Care.... We cannot just throw it out and go back to what we have.... We need to toss out the bad and make it better.

This is something the Republicans should of been working on with the Democrats when they were writing it before it was passed. Instead they turned their backs on it because all they could do is think about the cost....

The way it is now when someone goes to the ER they cannot be turned away because they have no money.

So who picks up the cost of the treatment, > the hospital does. Then those who have insurance get to see their premiums climb higher and higher.

Insurance Companys should be made accountable, they should not be allowed to pick and choose who they cover. If they get a paying customer then they should honor all the expense of the person's illness.

Man, I read the thing and none of that was in it. Your wires have been crossed once again by the neocon media corporations. And once again, the only reason there were so many pages in the thing was because it was double spaced and the words were printed larger so the old and the people with general bad eye sight could read it clearly. If it had been printed in normal type it would have only been 300 hundred pages. The size of a novel. You fellas would still have complained about it's length, 300 pages, because you only read comic books and one sentance slogans.

The only things wrong with the Affordable Care act, was the Individual Mandate and it wasn't a Single payer plan.

Boo Hoo.

Next they'll come after your military pay and your childrens labor rights. Yippy!

Yes we do need to start over, and make this bill right. When something is in need of TOTAL repair its a lot cheaper to start with new than fix the old, absolutely broken down. You are correct, insurance companies need to be more accountable, but is this doing that? We don't need more welfare programs in this country and this bill is largely so. Socialistic medicine is not the answer. AND the republicans were excluded in this bill because the democrats controlled the house and senate. No ONE political party is responsible for our health care problem in this country...they've both allowed this problem to get out of hand. BUT THIS BILL IS NOT A FIX!!!

prcasey:

The repubs weren't excluded. They excluded themselves by playing the victim role. They had a full year to read the thing be for it went up for debate. I read it in 4hrs and took another 2hours to go back through it and read the less understandable sections.

The only thing that the repubs wanted to put in it was the Individual mandate, which they came up with during the Clinton years. Now they are using this Individual mandate to repeal the whole thing, because they serve the corporations not the people.

cjw:

I guess you didn't really read what I wrote on the subject of Word sizes, spacing of sentances and the connection between page number outcomes.

So where are the insults and half truths?

cjw:

Oh right sorry, i didn't realize that comic reading, slogan spouting and neo-cons was un-pc.

Forgive me, sirs. Also, I forgot that only the right is allowed to say things that lump a whole group under one idea. Poo, poo.

Baz:

And i agree, mandates bad,....but is it okay for The People to be forced to buy car insurance? Just curious, oh masterful one. Get rid of the mandate and strengthen everything else, thats what I say. Oh and it was you who brought up the "Black Panthers" in "this discussion". I brought it up in kimmys blog because she was using a slogan ussually used by communist, socialist, anarchist and to a smaller extent the black panther party. Just seemed ironic that she rallies against groups like that, yet uses their battle cries. Strange, yeah?

Poo, poo.

There can be no "Grades for Sray" on this issue. The items listed by Mike Bradbury are either in the current bill or they are not. I'll leave it to "censored", "cant justwatch" and bazookaman to publish the truth as it is currently written into Law.

Zook

Is there another version your seeing that I am not seeing. I'm not being sarcastic I really want to know where your seeing that we are going to give health care to illegals that are here

H.R.3200

America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 (Introduced in House - IH)

SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.

(a) In General- Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.

(b) Implementation- To implement the requirement set forth in subsection (a), the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall, not later than 18 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, promulgate such regulations as are necessary or appropriate to insure that all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act are provided (whether directly or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements) without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.

Look at number 246 and then look at the other paragraphs and tell me where it says all Doctors will be paid the same. I'm not seeing it...

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c1118gNb8s:e157442:

Zook what you wrote on Page 52 Sec 152 is that true or false?

Same with the other pages you wrote down What your saying about each one is that the truth or your own personal assessment?

This is what I am seeing

Am I at the same place as you or am I on a different page or section ?

H.R.3200

America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 (Introduced in House - IH)

SEC. 241. AVAILABILITY THROUGH HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE.

(a) In General- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this subtitle, in the case of an affordable credit eligible individual enrolled in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan--

(1) the individual shall be eligible for, in accordance with this subtitle, affordability credits consisting of--

(A) an affordability premium credit under section 243 to be applied against the premium for the Exchange-participating health benefits plan in which the individual is enrolled; and

(B) an affordability cost-sharing credit under section 244 to be applied as a reduction of the cost-sharing otherwise applicable to such plan; and

(2) the Commissioner shall pay the QHBP offering entity that offers such plan from the Health Insurance Exchange Trust Fund the aggregate amount of affordability credits for all affordable credit eligible individuals enrolled in such plan.

(b) Application-

(1) IN GENERAL- An Exchange eligible individual may apply to the Commissioner through the Health Insurance Exchange or through another entity under an arrangement made with the Commissioner, in a form and manner specified by the Commissioner. The Commissioner through the Health Insurance Exchange or through another public entity under an arrangement made with the Commissioner shall make a determination as to eligibility of an individual for affordability credits under this subtitle. The Commissioner shall establish a process whereby, on the basis of information otherwise available, individuals may be deemed to be affordable credit eligible individuals. In carrying this subtitle, the Commissioner shall establish effective methods that ensure that individuals with limited English proficiency are able to apply for affordability credits.

(2) USE OF STATE MEDICAID AGENCIES- If the Commissioner determines that a State Medicaid agency has the capacity to make a determination of eligibility for affordability credits under this subtitle and under the same standards as used by the Commissioner, under the Medicaid memorandum of understanding (as defined in section 205(c)(4))--

(A) the State Medicaid agency is authorized to conduct such determinations for any Exchange-eligible individual who requests such a determination; and

(B) the Commissioner shall reimburse the State Medicaid agency for the costs of conducting such determinations.

(3) MEDICAID SCREEN AND ENROLL OBLIGATION- In the case of an application made under paragraph (1), there shall be a determination of whether the individual is a Medicaid-eligible individual. If the individual is determined to be so eligible, the Commissioner, through the Medicaid memorandum of understanding, shall provide for the enrollment of the individual under the State Medicaid plan in accordance with the Medicaid memorandum of understanding. In the case of such an enrollment, the State shall provide for the same periodic redetermination of eligibility under Medicaid as would otherwise apply if the individual had directly applied for medical assistance to the State Medicaid agency.

(c) Use of Affordability Credits-

(1) IN GENERAL- In Y1 and Y2 an affordable credit eligible individual may use an affordability credit only with respect to a basic plan.

(2) FLEXIBILITY IN PLAN ENROLLMENT AUTHORIZED- Beginning with Y3, the Commissioner shall establish a process to allow an affordability credit to be used for enrollees in enhanced or premium plans. In the case of an affordable credit eligible individual who enrolls in an enhanced or premium plan, the individual shall be responsible for any difference between the premium for such plan and the affordable credit amount otherwise applicable if the individual had enrolled in a basic plan.

(d) Access to Data- In carrying out this subtitle, the Commissioner shall request from the Secretary of the Treasury consistent with section 6103 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 such information as may be required to carry out this subtitle.

(e) No Cash Rebates- In no case shall an affordable credit eligible individual receive any cash payment as a result of the application of this subtitle.

Zook I was asking you because I can't decipher the legal wording either lol ! I thought you could understand all that mumbo Jumbo stuff.... And what you were saying was really true. lol !

Thank you for letting me know that it was your own personal assessment on the Health Care Plan

So Very True Zook

There is a version for anything you read or hear. If you don't like that version look for another that leans towards your argument :)

We all have our own opinions and I would like to see the name calling stopped on these blogs. We should respect those who we do not agree with .

An old saying

Some say the cup is half empty while others say the cup is half full

CJW Finally something we both agree on

I agree No Name Calling and NO Labels

back at you >> I'm smiling too

Yeah if we can only get others to do the same...

I just seen one over on kim's that needs to be deleted

There's a lot more to this than what bazookaman posted, too. And most of it BAD!!!! Perhaps some of you want to hold hands and sing kumbaya with namby pambies, but I'm not one of them. I am sick and disgusted with what "getting along" with liberals has done to my country. Now is the time to step up and right the wrongs this administration and congress have done. Shameful that a bill passes with noone in charge ever even reading it in full.

By the way, go back and LOOK at all the blogs and posts. You'll get an excellent idea of where the name calling, obfuscation, deceit has started...

Here are the TOP 10 reasons why I believe Obamacare is a disaster for America, our constitution, and our way of life:

1) The majority of individuals with employer-based coverage will lose their current plan. While President Obama claims his plan will enable Americans to keep their current health insurance plan, The Lewin Group, a highly respected health care consulting firm, found otherwise. Lewin€™s analysis of HR 3200 concluded that 88 million individuals €" 56 percent of Americans with employer-based coverage €" will be forced to change plans.

2) Millions with private insurance will lose existing health coverage. According to Lewin, 83 million people (48 percent) with private insurance will lose coverage. In particular, ObamaCare will likely lead to the elimination of both comprehensive or gold-plated plans (owing to price controls) and more affordable plans (such as Health Savings Accounts; owing to coverage mandates). As indicated above, a majority of employers will drop coverage. Private individual health insurance polices will be banned altogether.

3) Quality of care will decline. As a recent editorial in the Washington Post noted, President Obama's all-gain-no-pain stance masks the reality that getting health costs under control will require making difficult choices about what procedures and medications to cover. Yet, as the Post indicates, the primary driver of health care costs is technological innovation. Without such innovation, quality of care will decline. Obama's proposal to pay doctors and hospitals a flat fee to provide medical care will encourage rationing even more. Already, under the Massachusetts connector plan, there is a 33-55 day waiting period to see a primary care physician.

4) Medicare and Medicaid will be cut. In order to reduce health care costs, Congress is looking at slashing Medicare and Medicaid by $313 billion. Medicare Advantage plans will also be eliminated (these currently cover 1 in 5 seniors). As the number of Medicaid enrollees rises, rationing and waiting periods are also likely to increase.

5) More than 5 million lost jobs. According to the president's Council of Economic Advisors, as many as 5.5 million jobs could be lost owing to increased taxes on firms that do not currently provide health insurance. In fact, 56 percent of Americans believe ObamaCare will result in job losses as small businesses cut payrolls (Source: Public Opinion Strategies).

6) Millions will still lack heath insurance. Even after spending more than $1 trillion on health reform, the Lewin Group estimates 34 percent, or 17 million, of those who are currently uninsured will still not have insurance.

7) Hospitals will lose billions. Given Medicare's low reimbursement rates (68 percent of private payments), hospitals can expect their annual net income to fall by $62 billion. Physician reimbursement payments will also decline by $32 billion, although overall income could increase for some physicians (Source: Lewin Group/Heritage Foundation). Small and mid-size insurers will also be hurt under ObamaCare, as will specialists.

8) South Carolina's Medicaid costs will more than double. HR 3200 expands Medicaid coverage to low-income adults who earn 133 percent of Federal Poverty Level. The outcome will be an immediate increase of 370,000 eligibles, reaching 432,743 in 10 years. As a result, the state share of Medicaid funding will go from $450 million to $972 million by 2020 (Source: S.C. Dept. of Health & Human Services).

9) Taxes will increase. The ObamaCare plan will be funded by a cumulative 5.4 percent increase in the top tax brackets (beginning at $280,000). This increase will push South Carolina's combined federal and state effective marginal tax rate to 53.59 percent for top earners 16th highest in the nation. This is even after accounting for relevant deductions. All in all, taxes will increase by more than $800 billion. According to the Cato Institute, 60 percent of those hit with the surtax will be small business owners.

10) ObamaCare without the public option = HillaryCare. Amid reports the White House is backing away from offering a government option plan, it is important to recognize that we are left with nothing less than HillaryCare, the cornerstone of which was an individual insurance mandate. Such a mandate, as in Massachusetts, will require taxpayers to provide premium subsidies to everyone who cannot afford insurance. In addition, such a plan penalizes those who are young and healthy by forcing them to share risk with those who are unhealthy.

I defy any left winger to debate these facts, clearly, articulately.

I don't even care if you want to call me names. Go for it!

Bazookaman,

I know you're a good man with a good heart and soul, so I'm not trying to badger you with what I'm about to say. Respect is EARNED, not given. You have been respectful to me, and I will treat you in kind.

However, I think we absolutely need to stop this pc crapola about being unwilling to call out stupidity when someone acts stupid. I'm sure you've read the story "The Emporer Has No Clothes", right?

As I stated in the other blog, it's NOT mean spirited to call stupidity what it is.....it's simply stating FACT! I don't want my politicians to be respectful to stupidity, I want it THROWN OUT OF OFFICE! I don't want it to have equal time with logic and reason, I want it ridiculed and summarily defeated. Our country is going down the tubes because we are so pc these days, we actually invite stupidity to the table and give it credence. This HAS TO STOP!!!

If we don't stand up against stupidity, how can we expect our politicians to do it?????

Here's a PRIME EXAMPLE OF STUPIDITY!!!!!

"We have to pass the bill so you know what's in it"

Nancy Pelosi, FORMER Speaker of the House.

Homer why don't you debate using your own words

The words you used were wrote August 2009

http://www.scpolicycouncil.com/research-and-publications-/health-care/763--10-re...

Guess it's my turn now to be called stupid

yes msmarylin, if you have a problem because I RESEARCHED AND FOUND FACTS AND POSTED THEM HERE.....you ARE STUPID!

Another liberal tactic....attack the messenger, not the message............STUPID!!!!!!!!

HAHA ! I knew you would call me stupid. What did you want to debate? Outdated information that was wrote in 2009 before the HR3962 bill was passed?

I don't have time for your games.... HA ! Nice try thought! Your message was outdated Homer and show me where the attack was?

It's so easy for some to call others names when they hide behind a screen name. I think for these blogs you should have to use your first and last names, as if you were writing to the editor. I think then we wouldn't be seeing so much of name calling.

Suppose someone on here was old and had a stroke and had a problem with being understood would you call them names? Suppose it was your Mom Or Dad how would you feel if they were being called names on here or suppose it was your Mom or Dad that was doing the name calling, how would that make you feel?

bazookaman,

As I stated, I have absolutely no interest in "winning anyone over". Everyone should have enough logic and reason to weigh for themselves what's right, what's wrong. Facts are funny things, you CAN'T REFUTE THEM! Even though some people try. And it's these people that try to contort them, try to defame them, try to demean them, that I have the biggest problem with, regardless of race, creed, or color.

msmarylin is exactly the kind of person I'm talking about. A true IDIOT! Look back at her retorts, even the latest one. In it she actually has the nerve to call the FACTS I posted OUTDATED because these things came to light in 09, before Obamacare actually passed. Because obamacare passed in no way makes them any less factual than what they were in 09. If anything, it only makes them a grim reality in the forseeable future. Her perpetual deflections suggest lack of any true comprehension of what's really going on. Stupid is as stupid does, and while I respect your right to make music with liberals if you want to, please respect my right to hold them in utter contempt.

And the fact your relations are "college indoctrinated" only drives home the fact that liberalism has permeated our educational system as well as our media. There's an old saying, "If you're a liberal at 20, it proves you have a heart....if you're a liberal at 40, it proves you have no brain". I don't hold your young family members in any kind of contempt whatsoever. I remember what it's like to be young, and to be influenced by what was "cool" and "different" and being a "rebel". On the other hand, I very much hold in contempt these two that persistently show how very little they actually KNOW about anything. They are both old enough to know better, way past 40 for sure.

Homer you were wanting to debate on an obsolete Bill HR3200 Why bother debating something that didn't pass.

What passed was HR3590 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

Big difference because HR3200 was thrown out

The House and Senate Agreed to Amend it on March 21 2010

Bring it on call me whatever You just got knocked out.....

I'm not one to be on any side, bazookaman. I bet this will shock some, but I'm neither Democrat nor Republican. Nor am I a Liberatarian or Constitutionalist. I'm a registered Independent, but that's MAINLY because I will NOT blindly follow ANY party. Just because my dad and his dad before him belonged to a political party doesnt cut it with me. I have a FREE MIND, and was even encouraged by my father to "follow my own path, not someone elses". I have as much contempt for many Republicans right now as I do Democrats. I guess I'm what you'd call a Conservative Independent. I'm in support of the Tea Party so far, but reserve the right to scorn them if they start acting like the other two established parties. All I want is my country BACK, I don't care who wants to take credit for its restoration, just as long as it begins to happen is fine by me.

msmarylin, this is exactly why I refuse to engage with idiots like you. If you engage too long, then it's hard to tell who's who.

Absolutely NOWHERE did I say HR 3200 PASSED! NOWHERE! Much of what was in 3200 is STILL in 3590.......duh!

Speaking of gas, bazookaman....heard today we can expect gas to be around $3.70 a gallon by spring. Remember when the liberals were screaming bloody murder at Bush because of gas prices? Wanna bet now they won't blame Obama?

Oh so I have this wrong you weren't wanting to debate what Zook's blog was about? So what is it your wanting to debate, I ain't no mind reader? Spill It !

Zook's words

THIS IS RIGHT OUT OF 3200 ITSELF!...........you know, the one NOBODY READ----------------

And you said you wanted to debate

Here are the TOP 10 reasons why I believe Obamacare is a disaster for America

The 10 reason's were taken from HR3200

And if some of the HR3200 are in the HR3590 point them out to me as you know I am an Idiot, stupid, disturb, liar, ignorant old **** of a woman

You are just to funny Homer !

Your right Homer you didn't say HR3200 passed you just wanted to debate it ! HAHAHAHA !

Now msmarylin, let me direct my focus to you and your tedious ramblings. I'm not letting you off the hook with your stupidity. Just the opposite, I'm going to SHOW everyone WHY you're stupid.

I'm enumerating what you can expect from HR 3590:

1) The bill substantially reduces the growth of Medicare payment rates for most services relative to the growth rate under current law. It creates an Independent Medicare Advisory Board which is required to make reductions in Medicare costs that automatically go into effect unless Congress blocks the recommendations. These cost reductions cannot come from a modification of eligibility or benefits, leaving physicians and others caring for senior citizens to bear the cost reductions. This is unprecedented and unchecked authority that will result in fewer treatment options for vulnerable senior citizens because reimbursements for valuable, life-saving treatments will be reduced.

JUST LIKE HR3200!!!

2) The bill contains a public option, called a community health insurance option, with an opt-out for states not wishing to participate. This public plan would negotiate rates with physicians. In spite of the ability to opt-out, the community health insurance option is flawed and will ultimately limit patient choice and insert the government between the physicians and their patients. This will seriously interfere with health care decisions.

JUST LIKE HR3200!!!!!

3) The bill limits access to care by not adequately address the serious, continuing problems with the current Medicare physician payment system. The temporary one-year fix contemplated in the legislation does nothing for a desperately needed long-term solution and compounds the accumulated SGR debt and leaves a payment cut of approximately 28% in place for 2011.

JUST LIKE HR3200!!!

I could go on, but........it's like the other guy said. It's like wrestling with the pig and all you get it dirty, but the pig LIKES it!

Homer I guess you know about Pigs!

It's time for this old disturbed, idiot,liar, stupid, ignorant **** of a woman to go to bed. I will be back tomorrow in your face. Let me know what you want to debate........I am so looking forward to it.....

Notice in msmarylin's LAST post there is NOTHING...repeat NOTHING that addresses the FACTS that I provided for her in my last post. Instead she deflects, obfuscates, calls herself NAMES, names that I did not call her (other than stupid, of course). If the shoe fits, msmarylin....