Generation Ex

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Papers

Or, this one, if wikipedia.org offends your sensibilities:

http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/

I'll have to check and see how many swearing in ceremonies I find. Would like to see if each of our congressmen and women had their fingers crossed when they took their oath.

Well, everyone, it's been fun reading all the posts and comments on Kim's blog over the last few weeks.

I was drawn to the blog in an effort to learn a bit more about the points of view of individuals who were disappointed in the cards that have been dealt over the years.

It appears that many of you are disappointed in our government for a wide variety of reasons and, the last election made many of you more fearful than you may have been before the election. Following Kim's "Generation Ex" post, it's sadly evident that some of you may suffer from a delusion (common in paranoia) that you are much greater and more powerful and influential than you really are. That's not a comment meant to dissuade you from appealing to others to understand and aid in a resolution to the concerns you perceive. However, if any of you are making efforts to persuade others to your point of view, as opposed to just pat each other on the back by reaffirming each others posts, many of your efforts at persuasion are wasted in abusive, tired rhetoric. The comments made are primarily evocative (looking backwards), provocative, (move to anger)and, minimally, if at all, persuasive.

While many of you have a healthy respect for the work of our founders, and want to go "back" to the Constitution, it is clear that few of you appreciate the inspiringly eloquent persuasion that was crafted by Alexander Hamilton, John Jay and James Madison, to urge the voters of the state of New York to ratify our Constitution. The Federalist Papers offer an insight to the profoundly wise mindset of these statesmen and offer a source of confidence in our system, even in our day. After reading the Federalist Papers, one no longer needs interpretation of the Constitution from the likes of Beck, Hannity, Colmes, Maddow, Olberman, Limbaugh, Savage, O'Reilly, Maher, Joe Wilson, etc., etc.

Good Luck in your "struggle".

No matter the regime, large scale changes are not always embraced. No matter how ineffective the regime, it is time-consuming and expensive to reconfigure an institution. I like that people care. I may not agree with their reasoning but that is beside the point. Apathy is the worst thing that we can have as a society. Apathy is what caused the fall of the Roman Empire. Not saying that we should aspire to that but its a worthy example.

We are all on here because we think that we have the answer. We offer some wisdom or expertise to benefit the masses (or at least we think that we do). Most of us on here are rather clear and coherent. Yet for the same issue, we post many different views of the same thing. Not one of them is the definitive, absolute solution. The point is that no matter how flawed the institution, it does not transform overnight. Change takes persistence and time. This frustrates people but we are not always intelligent and rational.

bazookaman, you've apparently misquoted Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.

"By the People, Of the People and For the People" appears nowhere in The Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Independence .

What are the specific Constitutional issues that you take issue with?

I know you don't like the term "czars", which is not an official job title for any of those individuals currently holding those positions.

Those positions have official job titles, and believe it or not, many of the appointees are accountable to the Cabinet Secretaries. Many of these appointees are responsible for coordinating policies between other departments, so that our resources are more effectively utilized.

For example, if this sort of approach had been in place between our domestic and foreign intelligence services prior to 9/11, it may have been lawful for our domestic and foreign intelligence services to exchange information.

Good job Bazooka!

Dave, Sun Zu said you must know your enemy and to never start a battle you haven't already won. Seems like sound advice before youset Bazooka off on the constitution again.

I think that certain individuals like the title, "extremist". It draws attention to them. Its kind of like the kid in 8th grade that shows up one day with a mohawk. They only do it so that you will look their way. Now, you might criticize them or whatever but at least in this case you read the next sentence.

"An Open Letter to Barack Hussein Obama and the US Congress and Senate.

By James Wynne aka jdubya57 August 25, 2009

WE The People of the United States of America,

WE who revere and cherish our God given unalienable rights as stated in our Declaration of Independence,

WE who revere and cherish our Constitution, our Bill of Rights and the rule of law embodied therein,

WE The People do hereby inform you once again that,

WE all have had enough of your unconstitutional and unrepresentative ways.

WE are sick and tired of the den of thieves that Washington DC has become!

WE call it the District of Corruption!

WE know you do not care about upholding your sacred oath to our beloved Constitution. You have ignored your sacred oath and spat on our Constitution once too often.

WE know you have no intention to preserve, protect and defend her against all enemies, foreign or domestic, so help you God!

WE know we've been lax in keeping you under OUR control. Well, those days are OVER! You have awoken the Liberty Loving Patriots and,

WE ARE SILENT NO LONGER!

WE know who ALL of you are and,

WE WILL defeat you at the ballot box in 2010, 2012 and 2014. You can COUNT on it!"

Quick reply, it's late.

Regarding the 2nd amendment Ex-Chief Justice Warren Burger stated,"Americans also have a right to defend their homes, and we need not challenge that. Nor does anyone seriously question that the Constitution protects the right of hunters to own and keep sporting guns for hunting game any more than anyone would challenge the right to own and keep fishing rods and other equipment for fishing -- or to own automobiles. To "keep and bear arms" for hunting today is essentially a recreational activity and not an imperative of survival, as it was 200 years ago. "Saturday night specials" and machine guns are not recreational weapons and surely are as much in need of regulation as motor vehicles."

In an issue related to states rights, the Supreme Court consistently ruled that the Second Amendment restricts only the federal Congress, and not the States, in the regulation of guns.

The US Supreme Court has affirmed the decision that struck down the D.C. gun law. It also clarified the scope of the 2nd amendment stating that it stipulates an individual right, whether you are a member of a militia. However, the Supreme Court made it clear that like other rights, the right to bear arms is not without limitations, leaving open the prospect of reasonable governmental regulation.

The constitutionality of the Sixteenth Amendment has been upheld when challenged. And numerous courts have recognized that the Sixteenth Amendment authorizes a non‑apportioned direct income tax on United States citizens and that the federal tax laws as applied are valid.

The 14th Amendment states: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Clearly, the clauses define "citizens of the United States". However, other far reaching clauses, "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.". These clauses distinctly refer to "any person", i.e. All people are entitled to due process and equal protection, not just "citizens of the United States".

Hey Whyarentyoulistening: I am listening! Great post. What a profound letter. I wonder what they would do if they got that one a million times? Actually, in a way, I guess they have gotten this letter with all of the protesters on Capital Hill and all over the country. But having a letter like that in black and white on paper being sent to the White House in the millions would be pretty powerful. Thanks again for sharing it. (Time: 9:34am Day off from work)

Congress has the power to lay and collect taxes pursuant to Article 1, Section 8, Clause

18 of the Constitution.

Note that the 14th amendment states, "...nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." This clause refers to ANY person (making no mention of whether that person is a "citizen of the United States), where the preceding clauses refer to "citizens of the United States"

Now my view on the 2nd amendment. I look at it this way; If I'm driving down the road, stop or yield signs along the road don't really infringe on my liberty of movement. I can still get to where I want to go. As Chief Justice Burger stated, "... "Saturday night specials" and machine guns are not recreational weapons and surely are as much in need of regulation as motor vehicles."

But what if congress decided to tell you you could only own a Prius or Civic Hybrid? If I chose an AR15 or a chiefs special to defend myself and my family that is my choice of weapon just has it's my choice to drive a SUV versus a hybrid. Let the government control the import of cheap weapons made by communist countries but don't impinge my rights to own the weapon of my choice.

I could move about the country in a Prius or Civic. My liberty of movement would not have been infringed on.

As far as owning the weapons of our choice, I have to invoke the "..well regulated militia"

We tolerate speed limits, but speed limits do not prevent us from getting where we need to go. We have leash laws, but those leash laws don't prevent us from taking the dog for a walk.

I don't understand the last statement. You seem to be giving the okay for the government to control what you have to choose from. The governments control of those cheap imports would impinge on another's rights to choose the cheap imports.

One interesting side note. The "patriots" that everyone here holds in such high regard were merchants. The men who revolted against Britain were not farmers, blacksmiths, servants, or other unskilled, salt-of-the-earth types. They were middle-class, highly-educated, well-versed men that felt that the colonies could be autonomous. This autonomy would benefit them greatly. So they acted on their own self-interest not some epic, grandiose, heart warming, selfless motive. They wanted unfettered access to this new continent that had seemingly unlimited resources. So they were profit-seeking, rational businessmen after all. Hmmm.. not something that one makes a movie out of.

How do you see a closed road or no road at all preventing you from going where you wish?

http://www.examiner.com/x-2320-Baltimore-Hunting-and-Fishing-Examiner~y2009m8d27...

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa091900a.htm

I didn't see the feature on the smelt. As far as the smelt go, well, I suppose everyone has a feature of our world that they would like to see passed on the their children and grandchildren.

Whether or not Pelosi was involved, from what I've read, this may be a states' rights issue since it involved the states endangered species act. It appears the US FWS determined that the smelt didn't qualify for protection under the Federal Endangered Species Act.

I see the free speech issue comes up quite a bit throughout the posts. The subject of some of these posts is hard to nail down, since they tend toward a rambling, disjointed dissertation.

But, here are a couple of interesting articles regarding free speech.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/11/AR2009091103320....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/19/AR2009081902262....

FOX is just as biased as everyone else. They are slaves to the bottom line just like every other company ever put into existence.

I agree with Dave. Alot of these (including some of mine) break down into emotional tirades that lose sight of the point. Objectivity is a lost art on some but we cant expect all to embrace this.

I have an exam to prep for but I am not a party slave. I grew up with two parents who could not care less about politics. I made up my own mind on things.

All media has bias. Simple, cold truth is boring and does not sell. Black and white news without the extra albeit unnecessary emotion is boring. Boring your audience into a trance does not sell. You can figure that one out, I would presume.

Savage may have some decent points but he is brilliant at looking stupid. I would not disgrace my network with having him on. He is all emotional, over-the-top, bigotry. For those who enjoy his tirades, fine.

Have you opened your eyes and figured out that this is not the trenches of eastern France in WWI. Hmmmm... I have been here 31 years and there are no oppressive Maoist regimes here. There might be in the future, who knows. Being objective helps if you're to convince someone. You might try it. The world does not revolve around your values. Just because we are not gun-slinging, disgruntled, salt-of-the-earth types does not mean that we are inferior.

I dont like alot of the current admins. decisions. I can look at them logically and not be paranoid and think that every move is a conspiracy. Not every decision is that interesting. Overreacting to political blunders seems like a waste of energy. If it comes to a life or death situation, then I am sure that I can adapt and make due. Humans always have and always will.

Hey guys,

Went to Rupert for the POW/MIA Memorial Rally. Got to see a lot of vets from 4 different wars. My buddy got me invovled with the Patriot Guard Riders. We escorted the family of Cpl. Max Bailey into town and around the square in Rupert. Cpl. Bailey was a MIA from the Chosin Resevoir in Korea. Saturday we gave the family some closure. If you've never seen a military rites service or a POW dining table ceremony then you've missed out on great tradtion. I know belong to a brotherhood who live to support and protect the families of those who are returning home to be laid to rest.

If you go to the PGR website you will see the numerous missions this group does in honor of those who have fallen. While reading through it all I sit here and wonder why some people on this planet choose to show up at a solemn event to PROTEST. The person being carried to their final rest DIED to protect the right given to them in the constition of free speech. But always remember that your freedom has been paid for by those patriots willing to stand up agains the tyranny of oppression.

Found a great quote by Mark Twain on one of the PGR blogs that sums up a lot of what I see in these blogs;

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a

scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his

cause succeeds however, the timid join him,

For then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -- Mark Twain

Sound familiar?

Have you watched the Killing Fields or The Thin Red Line? Well those fine films show what oppressive Maoist regimes are like. You can be ignorant or delusional all you want but life is not like that depicted in those films. It may be in the future, who knows? You nor anyone else ever born can predict that. Today's current mess could or could not result in a situation like that. Bush's regime infringed upon civil liberties and I heard the same doomsday, conspiracy theory, end of the world garbage. Well it has not happened yet.

Subjectivity lends one to overreacting. Did Dith Pron escape the death camps of the Khmer Rouge by overreacting. No, he got out by outsmarting them. Being proud and ignorant would have resulted in a sure death. Oh sure, grabbing one of their guns and putting on his best G.I Joe war hero act would have been inspiring but only for about 10 seconds then he would have dissolved in a rice patty just like the other million.

Your posts remind me of a fire-breathing, repent-or-die preacher that relies on fear and uncertainty. Not one shred of his message can be proven but by God does he goes on about it. One can not be disproven but also there is nothing to back this up. If life is going to break down into all out, bloody Revolution like Red Dawn, I am sure that humans can adapt. Regardless of race, religion, and nationality they always have.

I dont like the current regimes methods as I have stated numerous times. I have written letters to Senators and such. No, I am not going to grab a gun and do my best Micheal Collins impersonation. I would rather contribute to change than perish or whither in prison for nothing. Passion does not need to have a pistol in his right hand. It might make some feel like more of a man but I need not such items.

Finally, Israel should be free to do whatever it feels is best for it. I dont support us financially propping them up. Donations from the US provide for around 25% of their GDP. They are an independent country so why are we supporting them?

Help is one thing but supporting them is another. Possibly lower our support for them but not eliminate it. They should live or die on their own accord.

It seems that you admire them because of their militarized state. Kind of like a modern day Sparta. One that rewards courage, decisiveness, and loyalty regardless of how wrong or right it is. That's fine but I would not keep funneling our resources to a cause like that. The conflict will never end. Religion is subjective by nature and so there is no winning the argument. Both sides are too ignorant to ever come to an agreement.

Tax dollars and how to spend them is a debate that will never end. No matter the regime, there will always be some that complain. The trick is finding a balance that benefits more than it harms. Taxation is not inherently bad. The percentage of income (personal and national) that goes to it is the item of contention.

Patriot Act? Stem Cell research? Buying Prescription Drugs in Canada? Bush had a track record of infringing on selective liberties. I read many doomsday, conspiracy theory rants and yet we are still here.

I support helping countries where we will see some return on the investment. That may take time as all things do. Simply giving them millions or billions simply for goodwill is wasteful. The supply of money or resources is not infinite. It will become scarce eventually. Why get into a financial crunch when you dont need to?

This is not a blame game and if you would finish reading the sentence you would know better. My point is that I read or hear about all this apocalyptic, end-of-civilization, revolution-is-calling ignorance from BOTH SIDES and yet it has never happened. Not one single thing that you and others have predicted has come true in any way.

In the Bush era, I heard the same rhetoric as what you post. The same over-the-top, fervent speeches saying that civilization was over and that we need to get on the right side before its too late. Sounds like someone reading the Book of Revelations. Oh but that was just an angry, possibly high on drugs, and bored individual stuck on an island in the Mediterranean venting. Hmmm.. you can believe it if you want but I stick with logic.

I get it. We're different. I try to stay level headed and in control. My parents and my grandparents have embodied that and done just fine in life. That is not to say that we are not stubborn and determined. Its a matter of picking our battles and focusing our energy on things that will most likely result in success.

Gearing up for an end-of-the-world revolution when the chances are about one in a trillion is lunacy. Go ahead and construct yourself a bunker and equip it with enough guns and ammo to supply an army. If that makes you feel adequate and prepared, feel free. Logic has shown that with few exceptions, radical change does not happen and when it does it does not achieve the goals of anyone. Things take time. The things that we complain about did not happen overnight. They are the results of many interactions and processes. Oh.. and your generation is not off the hook.

Again it boils down to relying on faith or reason. I look at the landscape and make a decision. I dont take the rantings of a shaman or doomsday theorist and run with it.

Every generation has had flaws. Society tries to repair them, for better or for worse. One is not really better than the other. Americans are not superior to those who dwell in Angola nor anywhere else. Someone from 1700 does the best that they can with what they have and so do modern day people.