The "Rest Of The Story"

Posted Sunday, December 7, 2008, at 6:52 PM

I'm not posting a 40th hit on a blog that's already had 39, and taking forever to scan, so I'm dedicating this one to Jacknife and all of his socialist mentors and writers who always seem to know more about the Vietnam War than those of us who fought in it.

These "armchair quarterbacks" suck up anything that has a tasty tint to it, and build upon it until it's really sensational, in their minds.

A lot like the old game with 10 people in a row of chairs. A bit of information is passed from number ONE and by the time it reaches the 10th person, it's almost not even on the same subject.

Even after 40 years, Vietnam is a touchy subject with me, because we're doing the exact same thing in Iraq. But this needs to be addressed.

If you read it already, Jacknife quotes from the Toledo Blade......Yeah, I can see where THAT would be "credible". I don't remember seeing any of their staff at Khe Sanh while we were being rocketed, or Quang Tri in the middle of the night when we were taking mortars.

I don't recall seeing Sam Donaldson or Tom Brokaw along Highway Nine when we got ambushed, either.

Here's the "rest of the story", as Paul Harvey would say:

1. A platoon of Marines (or Army) walk through a village along a rice paddy dike while on patrol.

2. A VC or NVA force hiding in huts or ditches opens fire on our guys, who, not wanting to be killed, immediately take cover and return fire. (none of us knew about Obama's "tea on the front porch" back then).

3. There are usually civilians in these shacks, sometimes used as human shields.......yes, even back then.

4. A half dozen civilians are killed by American bullets penetrating the huts to get the bad guys.

5. After it's over, casualty reports, (both sides) are radioed back to DaNang, Saigon, etc.

6. Armed Forces Radio dispatches it back to the states, although sometimes there might actually be members of the American Press in Vietnam, but well protected behind embassy walls in Saigon.

7. From the time he gets his report, to the time it reaches the Tribune in Chicago, the Times in New York, the Chronicle in San Francisco or the Times in Los Angeles, those half dozen civilians become 20 to 25.

8. If VC prisoners were taken but not fed before interrogation, they were being "deprived and tortured."

9. If it took a flame thrower to flush out a machinegun nest, the "entire village was being burned" as far as NBC was concerned.

10. If any children were killed from incoming rockets, or had legs blown off from VIETNAMESE boobytraps..somehow, when the photos and stories reached stateside......it was these "dirty war-mongering" Americans who did it.

But somehow.....the first three items of the ten I just mentioned, never seemed to make it to print. The media had an agenda even back then.

"Baby killers and village burners".........and that's how we were met when we got off the plane at the L.A. Airport upon our return.

In subsequent years, the pinko professors at Berkeley and other like minded campuses, taught their communist propaganda to our college students, most of whom took it all in at face value.

"Professor's GOTTA be right..........he's got all those degrees, doesn't he?"

Those "professors" didn't know anything more than the future liberals they were brainwashing. Fact is, THEIR jobs were teaching physics, algebra, engineering, medicine...........not SUBVERSION.

Your tax dollars at work.

Many of the kids they spawned, are the same nutcases running around the country today crying "reparations for the Japanese families whose relatives were radiation burned by the A-Bombs.........but like the first three items on my initial list you just read.........something is always conveniently omitted.

And today just happens to be another Sunday....and another December 7th. You liberal socialists out there probably observe August 6th and 9th, as "memorial days", and not today's date.

But Jacknife, and the rest of you "literary experts" out there..........if you've never been there and done it, you guys have got nothing to say.

Tell you what you do, boys............sign your name on a recruiter's contract. Survive the training, go overseas and trod through the swamps and jungles with 80 lbs of gear on your backs.

Wade through the rice paddies and leeches, live on C-rations and iodined water for a year or so, deal with the snakes, mosquitos and malaria.

Sweat it out in the humidity as you go through the villages, trying to look into the eyes of all those staring at you as you try to figure out the good guys from the bad guys.

Live through sudden ambushes, rockets in the middle of sleepless nights, feel the wind and "whine" of the slugs from the AK-47's as they whiz by your noggin, and pray to God you don't stop one of them yourself.

Say goodbye to a friend who had 3 weeks left before he went back the states, and now you're loading him into a bodybag to make the trip. Get the stench of death out of your nostrils if you can.

Then, if you DO manage to survive it all, Jack........come on home. Come on back to a country where your dads and uncles once marched down the streets under tickertape, after VJ Day in 1945.......back when "Johnny Came Marching Home." Remember that? We all saw that in those war movies.

But now it's 1968. YOU'VE been through the same hell. the stink and stench, the blood and carnage...........................oh yes, you have "crowds" waiting for YOU too! "Welcome home, you baby-killing village-burning, torturing S.O.B.'s!

It's not like what you see in the movies, slick. And it SURE as heck ain't the way the MEDIA reports it, either.

All the professors you've ever listened to, or books you've ever read, don't amount to diddly-squat.

Get yourself a pack and rifle, dude......go live like an animal for uncle Sam, duck and dodge a few rockets and AK's, then come back to a country that treats you worse than a rabid dog...............

THEN.........THEN........you can get on a blog and lecture all of us about "morals, priciples, and how corrupt" we all are.

Until you've been down that "Ho Chi Minh Trail".......you don't KNOW "the rest of the story." None of you do.

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Mike, yet another great post. I admire the fact that you can talk about your experience. My dad, who was also there, talked about nothing and had really bad dreams for as long as I can remember. He wanted to go and did. Thank you for your post and for your service. Take care Mike.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Sun, Dec 7, 2008, at 8:34 PM
So all the Anti-war Veterans, that had been to Vietnam and fought, and saw all this stuff you deny, are liars? Is that what your saying? And all the war crimes trials that went down, were false? I find that hard to believe, when those facts are in the history books. But your probably one of those guys that believe that as Americans we can do no wrong. One of those that believes that every war we fought was for freedom and democracy, because that's what your parents, church leaders and government heads, told you to believe. You and all the people of your age are still under the influence of nationalist propaganda. And most of the kids my age have become brain dead because of their parents brainwashing and still believe as you do, but even more so, because the propaganda of today is colored brighter and offers more money. And onto the subject of education. If a professor teaches anything remotely anti-ameircon they are promptly stripped of their robes and credibility because they are telling the truth. People don't get fired for lying anymore bub, it's when they tell the truth of the americon underbelly that they are blacklist and branded as traitors. The liars stay in office, because they are furthering the propaganda of the Government. So you can go on denying the past and further the cause of the American lie and call me a socialist *******, but it's people like me that stay true to the constitution and bill of rights because we would rather admit that our country has caused more horror and devastation in the short 200+ years it's been around, then any-other country in history. All the wars we've been in under the guise of Freedom and Democracy, have been fallacies. They were only ever waged, to further the power of America on the global population. It is America, that is a fascist state! And I for one want it stopped. But your going to say that socialism was fascist. And I will say, that what you were taught of socialism was bastardized interpretations. But so it goes,,,,

-- Posted by Jacknife on Sun, Dec 7, 2008, at 9:21 PM
Yeah, I said thanks and sent my apologizes to the victims of pearl harbor. FDR was a traitor of the highest order, many, many months before that tragedy took place,him and his cronies knew that an attack was eminent. But yet, did nothing about it, because they wanted an excuse to go to war. And a month or so before it happened FDR, and his advisers new where it was to take place. Hell even Britain intelligence knew. But the heads didn't do squat because they wanted it. So yeah, global power was always their aim. And the lives of American Military men was just a by-product of their greed. And that's a fact that anyone could see, even with their sun glasses on.

-- Posted by Jacknife on Mon, Dec 8, 2008, at 8:56 AM
Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition

Artical written in 2006'

BERKELEY -- Politically conservative agendas may range from supporting the Vietnam War to upholding traditional moral and religious values to opposing welfare.

Four researchers who culled through 50 years of research literature about the psychology of conservatism report that at the core of political conservatism is the resistance to change and a tolerance for inequality, and that some of the common psychological factors linked to political conservatism include:

Fear and aggression

Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity

Uncertainty avoidance

Need for cognitive closure

Terror management

Assistant Professor Jack Glaser of the University of California, Berkeley's Goldman School of Public Policy and Visiting Professor Frank Sulloway of UC Berkeley joined lead author, Associate Professor John Jost of Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, and Professor Arie Kruglanski of the University of Maryland at College Park, to analyze the literature on conservatism.

The psychologists sought patterns among 88 samples, involving 22,818 participants, taken from journal articles, books and conference papers. The material originating from 12 countries included speeches and interviews given by politicians, opinions and verdicts rendered by judges, as well as experimental, field and survey studies.

Ten meta-analytic calculations performed on the material - which included various types of literature and approaches from different countries and groups - yielded consistent, common threads, Glaser said.

The avoidance of uncertainty, for example, as well as the striving for certainty, are particularly tied to one key dimension of conservative thought - the resistance to change or hanging onto the status quo, they said.

The terror management feature of conservatism can be seen in post-Sept. 11 America, where many people appear to shun and even punish outsiders and those who threaten the status of cherished world views, they wrote.

Concerns with fear and threat, likewise, can be linked to a second key dimension of conservatism - an endorsement of inequality, a view reflected in the Indian caste system, South African apartheid and the conservative, segregationist politics of the late Sen. Strom Thurmond (R-South S.C.).

Disparate conservatives share a resistance to change and acceptance of inequality, the authors said. Hitler, Mussolini, and former President Ronald Reagan were individuals, but all were right-wing conservatives because they preached a return to an idealized past and condoned inequality in some form. Talk host Rush Limbaugh can be described the same way, the authors commented in a published reply to the article.

This research marks the first synthesis of a vast amount of information about conservatism, and the result is an "elegant and unifying explanation" for political conservatism under the rubric of motivated social cognition, said Sulloway. That entails the tendency of people's attitudinal preferences on policy matters to be explained by individual needs based on personality, social interests or existential needs.

The researchers' analytical methods allowed them to determine the effects for each class of factors and revealed "more pluralistic and nuanced understanding of the source of conservatism," Sulloway said.

While most people resist change, Glaser said, liberals appear to have a higher tolerance for change than conservatives do.

As for conservatives' penchant for accepting inequality, he said, one contemporary example is liberals' general endorsement of extending rights and liberties to disadvantaged minorities such as gays and lesbians, compared to conservatives' opposing position.

This intolerance of ambiguity can lead people to cling to the familiar, to arrive at premature conclusions, and to impose simplistic cliches and stereotypes, the researchers advised.

The latest debate about the possibility that the Bush administration ignored intelligence information that discounted reports of Iraq buying nuclear material from Africa may be linked to the conservative intolerance for ambiguity and or need for closure, said Glaser.

"For a variety of psychological reasons, then, right-wing populism may have more consistent appeal than left-wing populism, especially in times of potential crisis and instability," he said.

They concluded that conservatives are less "integratively complex" than others are, Glaser said, "it means that they're simple-minded."

Conservatives don't feel the need to jump through hoops in order to understand or justify some of their positions, he said. "They are more comfortable seeing and stating things in black and white in ways that should frighten Americans."

-- Posted by Jacknife on Mon, Dec 8, 2008, at 9:54 AM
And I didn't vote for Obama, he's just another politician with his hand in the cookie jar looking for something extra. Like all the other politicians.

And the atrocities of Vietnam where shown on T.V. while it was underway. So plenty of people saw them. Why do you think that the majority of Americans opposed the war by the time it ended? And there were the civilian journalist there that would attest to the fact of the American Barbarisms in that war. The facts are out there, bub, your just too set in your "America can do no wrong" ways to see the reality.

It takes more courage to tell the truth then it does to deny it. So deny away, and maybe someday your version of life will become the Norman Rockwell painting you'd like it to be.

-- Posted by Jacknife on Mon, Dec 8, 2008, at 10:16 AM
Jack:

Perhaps since you were not there, you do not really know what went on. If you believe the media and their version of the "facts" you have a problem. The media "feeds" us what they want us to know and how they want us to know it. Just because you see it on CNN or the "History Channel" does not make it so. With time, history has a history of being rewritten. Before long...the Nazi reign of terror will be all but a memory because history will again be rewritten to fit the times and all "survivors" will be dead.

Do you also blame our guys/gals that are out there fighting now in a place we should not be? How many years have you served for your country?

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Mon, Dec 8, 2008, at 10:35 AM
President and Vice President of the United States: Brian Moore of Florida and Stewart Alexander of California. I've got the "I voted" sticker on my mail box to prove it. I was out telling people to vote and handing out copies of the constitution before the elections opened. That's how I served my country. And I'm sure that's more then you guys have ever done for this supposed United States.

FDR was a traitor as well as every president since Nixon. Except, of course, Carter who didn't do much of anything. And yes, I include Reagan in that judgement, Bazooka Joe.

I blame our government for creating the situation in Iraq, and the people for putting up with it, No opinion of your own missy.

And Bazooka Joe, "A LOT of people believe what they hear from the media, and other questionable sources, Missy.If if tickles their "taste buds' and would appear to support their own beliefs.......it magically becomes "truth", Much like your belief that the government is coming to take your guns from you. You fear what is not there. Your like a child hiding under the covers from the monster in the closet. There's no way in hell, that they could take your guns. Gun owners are in the majority and that's a fact. So fear not, the apocalypse is still far from being fulfilled and you can sleep in ignorance for a little while longer.

-- Posted by Jacknife on Mon, Dec 8, 2008, at 11:45 AM
Brian Moore of Florida and Stewart Alexander of California.

aka:

http://www.socialistparty-usa.org/

-- Posted by Beau on Mon, Dec 8, 2008, at 12:55 PM
bazook, just take it all with a grain of salt, people like Jacknife that have never served let alone be involved in a WAR don't have a clue, just the nonsense they able to dig out of some web site, or see on TV, or read a book by someone that wasn't there either. There are just some that think they know it all but never been a part of it but yet can tell others just how it all happened.

-- Posted by Eagle_eye on Mon, Dec 8, 2008, at 4:13 PM
Jack, it is a wonder that you can survive with all of us idiots! Try not to put yourself out too much more for service to/for your country. I would hate for you to really have to LEARN something. May you be allowed to live in your ignorance for a bit longer. Maybe go volunteer at the vet hospital in Boise. The folks there could probably teach you a thing or 2 or at least use your butt for a football after you tell them how things were (or were not) for them while they were at war and you were not even born. That could be an eye opener for you...if you had the ability to see that is.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Mon, Dec 8, 2008, at 4:57 PM
You people didn't even look at the web-site did ya?

Just like a lazy capitalist, only interested in the lies that your leaders tell you.

To afraid to see the truth and realize that you've all been wrong.

But that's not your own faults, it mainly rests in the governments lap for demonizing everything that they can't wrap their heads around. Like people running the country, job markets and not two-bit crooks in suits and charisma.

And the only Communist and socialist countries that I couldn't have a free voice in was Russia and Germany because they were Totalitarian Governments that put more money into warfare then into the people.

Those are bastardized version of what real socialism is and will be.

No country can stay viable when war is it's main industry, and oppression is the norm.

Like I said earlier you guys are still under the influence of cold war propaganda.

If you have ever read any history on the labor movement you'd realize the it was the socialist/unions that gave you people freedoms in the workplace.

Such as the 8hr work day, health care benefits, vacation time, sick time and fair wages.

If we hadn't of been around you people would still be working 18 hour days for something like a 1.50 a day with maybe one day off a week and no work place safety.

We have never been out to oppress, any rebellion we caused was in the name of workers rights/the peoples rights to live comfortably.

Sure there were off shoot groups like the Nationalist, but we do not associate with them, they were always about one race, and we do not tolerate any kind of rascism.

So learn to read and you will pull yourselves out of the dream world your leaders and teachers made for you.

Capitalism has only served the rich, divided the people, and oppressed other countries in the name of money and power. And that's a fact.

-- Posted by Jacknife on Mon, Dec 8, 2008, at 5:48 PM
And I never asked you what you've done for your country, I said "And I'm sure that's more then you guys have ever done for this supposed United States."

Furthering the cause of capitalist aggression and power is not service, it's slavery.

-- Posted by Jacknife on Mon, Dec 8, 2008, at 5:59 PM
Sorry I had to go to work, so I wasn't able to reply to your madness. As a matter of fact, I have been to the V.A, here in Boise was going to work there but saw all the tragedy. And had to walk out. The V.A. is no place for any living human being. The vets are treated like animals and annoyances there. They have a hell of a time getting any kind of service even though they served their government and destroyed themselves in the process. And that's just another reason I have great anger toward your Government/military. They are sent off to war that generally speaking, the leaders of this nation caused to come into being. Come back and are treated like 3rd class citizens. In my opinion, though I'm against war, if a man or woman joins the military they should always get full medical coverage and pay even after their service is done. They are workers to and deserve all the rights and comforts as well. But alas, your precious leaders don't want their nation to seem socialist by giving equal help to the people. And by that I mean ALL People, not just the rich and well to do that have everything handed to them because of aristocracy.

And onto the service of country, it does not take a gun and a tank to serve your country. Every person that has a job is in the service of country, because without the workers you'd have no country to speak of. There'd be no one to clean your buildings, trim your grass, remove your trash, build your houses, grow your food, protect you while you sleep and make all the other items your we're so addicted too as a nation. So yeah, I serve my country by keeping a job, and attended school so I can expand my mind away from the biased knowledge they teach in kindergarten-12th grade, the knowledge they pound into your skull at church, the lies of the government. Like I said earlier, before the elections I and a bunch of other people were out telling people to vote and handing out copies of the constitution. We were not advocating our party, or any other party, we were just informing people of the issues of our nation. There were no party fliers or pins just knowledge given out freely. That is service of a whole other kind, knowledge that is. So take as you will. So if my knowledge of America offends you, so be it.

The issue of the confederate party past and present was always about racism and slavery. They only reason they got mad was because they didn't believe that slaves should be freed, because they saw slaves as live stock and away to make more money by not having to pay their workers. And the end process of a re-newed confederacy would be segregation and eventually back to slavery. I and others I know have been fighting racism here in Idaho for a good 15 years. So down with your confederacy.

-- Posted by Jacknife on Tue, Dec 9, 2008, at 1:16 PM
All right Jacknife, now youve touched my nerve. Do a little research son, and you'll see that the VA is doing as much as they can with the minuscule funds they have. When I retired, I had an evaluation performed at the VA hospital in Boise to determine disability, and was met with professional and personal courtesy throughout my visit. And as for pay and free medical care, if you retire from the military (not just separate, but serve a full 20 years) you do get paid: for the rest of your life! And although the medical isn't free (it used to be), it's pennies on the dollar compared to the cost of commercialized health care (can't name certain institutions for fear of being "censored"). Ever heard of Tri Care? The government does the best it can with the monies available to take care of retired Vets.

-- Posted by MrMister on Tue, Dec 9, 2008, at 7:23 PM
1. New Amendment to Constitution which repeals 14th, and 15th Amendments.

That is the number one thing that your confederate party wants to do. And what are those amendments about Bazooka? If you don't know look it up.

And MrMister, there could and should be more funds available. And you guys do not get your full pay that you recieved when you were in, but hey if you only want a fraction of what you used to make I guess thats your choice. If the Government would stop wasting money and lives, on wars over oil and building oppressive regimes in other countries then you fellas would be better off. The whole country would be better off. So it goes,,, Now attack.

-- Posted by Jacknife on Wed, Dec 10, 2008, at 2:21 PM
No attack here Jacknife, but, 50% is more than just a fraction; it's half (Well, technically I guess it's still a fraction). And maybe it wasn't just the retirement benefit that pulled us to serve our country; maybe it was a sense of duty.

-- Posted by MrMister on Wed, Dec 10, 2008, at 7:27 PM
That's all well and good, but the fact remains that it should be 100% all around. Despite the sense of duty or not. It shouldn't be based, in the case of the V.A., on 100% disability or 1% disability. You preformed a Job and deserve what you were making while serving plus the free health and a cost of living increase every year. And that's how it should be for Everyone.

-- Posted by Jacknife on Wed, Dec 10, 2008, at 8:25 PM
nife,

The retirement isn't based on disability: If you "retire" after serving a 20 commitment, you get 50% of your base pay for the highest paid 3 years of service, period. Disability plays into extra benefits such as a percentage of your retirement pay being tax free on up to added pay. When being evaluated for disability, it was just that: to determine a percentage of disability. You can retire with 0% disability and you still get 50% of your base pay. I enlisted at the age of 21 and am receiving said retirement after almost 22 years of service. That means, at the age of 44 (retired 2 years ago), I am receiving an income of half my base pay. I don't know of many companies or organizations out there that can match that. Bear in mind that this is for enlisted servicemembers in the U.S. Air Force. I'm not sure how it works for officers or for other branches of the service (I think it's the same). And don't forget the next to nothing health care. Where else can someone serve (work) for 20 years and get those benefits?

-- Posted by MrMister on Wed, Dec 10, 2008, at 9:28 PM
P.S. Bazookaman,

Took this blog to 38 or 39. Sorry, but I felt the need to speak my piece.

-- Posted by MrMister on Wed, Dec 10, 2008, at 9:32 PM
can't justwatch,

Could you please inform me of where you got this information? Is there any other entity out there that is not taxed on retirement in Idaho? This is something I think I might like to do a little research on; that doesn't sound fair at all. Thank's for letting us know that little tidbit of info!

-- Posted by MrMister on Thu, Dec 11, 2008, at 7:27 PM
Military Industrial Complex. It's a very big business, BAZOOKA. One that you promote by using terms like duty, service and patriotism. So your patriotism, service and duty, (they are just words used to keep wars viable in the hearts and minds, of the citizens.) Retired or disabled, 100% pay and benefits! For Life!

So I guess this non-player, will go back to handing out fliers and protesting. Have fun cleaning your guns,,,

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education."--Thomas Jefferson to William Jarvis, 1820

-- Posted by Jacknife on Fri, Dec 12, 2008, at 12:43 AM

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