I discovered tonight who I am!

Think about this. The Homeland Security talks about extemists stockpiling weapons and food. Uhmmmmmmm. I just went out and bought a gun,ammo, and I always stockpile food. I have had a gun for years, and have stockpiled food and believe the Federal gov't should allow each state to govern themselves. I will also defend those beliefs. Because of my beliefs, according to the Homeland Security info -- I am an extremeist.

You did notice by the way, that the document states that you cannot favor State or local gov't over Federal? I thought that according to the Constitution that each State has the right to govern themselves. Since when can't you favor your own States laws? DUH---- Since NOW!!!!!

http://images.radcity.net/6694/3611649.pdf

I get your point but the current time has no comparison to then. We do not live in Europe with its fragmented nationalism. Economically, there is no comparison. Inflation, unemployment, output, and every key economic indicator were spiraling out of control. Today's doomsday theorists might say that this is just the beginning but when have not these paranoid National Enquirer types not said this. Hitler had a vastly different situation at hand. Yes, on the surface it appears that Obama has pushed some things through without the usual democratic process. My only response is, We are in IDAHO not Washington. Now go ahead round up your media sources and circle the wagons. Point is that no one has absolute, irrefutable proof that it really went down like that. It does appear fishy and I will keep my ears open but I know that I dont know the full story and thats alright. Lord knows that if it comes out that there were others involved and that he was not pulling his best Stalin impersonation, that these naysayers would not eat their words.

Twilcox1978

Your comment: "Yes, on the surface it appears that Obama has pushed some things through without the usual democratic process". Why is there no room for debate or other ideas? When a person feels "this" is happening then it most probably is. People don't want to believe it is happening here in the U.S., so they wait and see.

If you read the Homeland report, it consistantly says that the people "perceive". The one thing that it states was "perceived", was the perception that the U.S. would have a failing economy. A couple of sentences from that report:

"Historically, domestic rightwing extremists have feared and anticipated a cataclysmic economic collapse in the United States. Prominent antigovernment conspiracy theorists have incorporated aspects of an impending economic collapse to intensify fear and paranoia among like-minded individuals and to attract recruits during times of economic uncertainty".

Didn't the President himself say that we have a spiraling economy? Everything that we "perceive" has been stated by the President in public. Is the economy a "perceived" situation? Are the loss of jobs to illegals "perceived"?.

Our very own President went on for months how the economy is spiraling and no one but the government can get us out of this. He drilled it into people that our economy is falling apart and only government could right the economy. His speeches became so gloom and doom that Congressmen from his own party said that he has to give the American people something to hang onto and give them hope. So------- he began to say that we are getting better and things are looking up. Not only are the American people concerned, but other countries were and still are panicky that they could lose their investment in the United States. So----- what is true? Are we really that bad off or is the Pres. trying to grab control by making us "believe" that everything is caving in? Is he playing head games to get what he wants and control business ventures, banks, insurances, and each and every State? Who is he to go to another country and "expect" them to match money that the US has given to help with the economy? I was flabbergasted that he would try to "tell" another country what they should give to help the economy.

Any entity that accepted the bailout money is now being told what to pay, how to do business, what they should sell and even what they can advertise. Scary to me.

Each and every time he wants money he says he wants Congress to act on it "immediately". It seems that he doesn't want to give time for debate. When there is no room for debate, there is a bad taste all the way around.

I will give credence to this when someone can state definitively and truthfully that they were there and saw every transaction and move. No one can claim to be an expert unless they can explain every move and prove it. This is a game of perception which no matter the opinion, it is after an OPINION. I buy into facts and figures that do not have political persuasion wrapped around them. People have been twisting words since the beginning of the time. The Bible and the Koran are great examples.

No one twisted the words. Read the Homeland Security report. It is talking about about the "perceived"

Much of what I talked about has come out of Pres. mouth. He stated what the economy is. He is the one who stated what he wanted other countries to give. He is the one who has stated what companies should, could and will do. So where is the perception? Where is the perception that jobs are being taken by illegals? Ask the Truss company in Meridian (?) who had 16 of them working for them and got caught. Apparently they had applications galore for people who want to work. I am pretty sure the applicants were all legals.

There is no "perception" about the Homeland Security report. Isn't this report from Homeland Security itself? So where is the perception? So far that report has stated all the "perceptions" that have come true. Surprising huh? The problem is: Homeland Security and the gov't want to label anyone as an extremist if they believe that the the problems listed in the report has happened, and want to attempt keep our freedoms.

Twil, Twil, Twil, just as I think you've seen the light you close the blinds. You will NEVER know everything the government is doing. Republican or Democrap, they won't let you. They will spoon feed you what they want you to know so they can control your thoughts and actions. As for being an expert, they would hang an innocent man for it here. But I do know what my beliefs are and I know right from wrong. I can read and have a high enough IQ to determine my own opinion. Those of us who have studied history can see where this nation is headed if WE don't speak up. You're right, the economy isn't nearly as bad as it was when Hitler took total control of Germany. But it had to start somehwere, as did Hitler. He saw from an early vantage point what would happen. Did he use his position to make it better or did he fail to help knowing it would possibly catapult him into power. The right man, saying the right thing, at the right time can have absolute power. Is ANY of this sounding familiar. Now we have Madam DHS Director saying that the everage American who has had enough is now no better than any terrorist. That because we hold things such as our religion, our rights under the constitution, our belief in self rule we have the POTENTIAL to attack our beloved country. Think about it Twil, you write in these blogs as do the rest of us. At times you have spoken things against this administration. So what happens when the brown shirts come to your door and arrest you for seditious acts? Are you Catholic as I am? What happens when my religion becomes an enemy of the state because we don't think killing an unborn child is moral and right? A report just last week had one of Obabma's henchmen condeming the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic mens organization, of being un-american and compared us to the KKK because of our stance on abortion and other moral standards. Obama has sent no less than three people to the Pope as the new ambassador to the Holy See in Rome only to have them sent back because of their positions on things such as abortion. Obama wants to make sure he has an ambassador there to clear the road for him to meet with the Pope in July. I hope the Holy Father gives him an earful on what is right and wrong MORALLY.

Kim, keep writing. Give us a place to voice our outrage and hurt. If they move to shut you down, let us know. I'm a vocal person as you know and I will take up the battle standard to protect your rights under the constitution. Have ne fear. Don't let the bas!@@#@ds get you down. Don't cave in, People like Mike and I are here for you any time.

I guess the way that i should have worded it is such. I know that i dont know everything and that is fine. When I dont know something 100% definitively I will admit it. I dont claim to the know-all end-all without having abundant proof. One of my flaws I guess is that I expect people to do the same.

I know there are pro's and con's to every situation. There are reasons for every action. They may be misguided or not but that depends on the situation. I try to understand a situation thoroughly before I comment. I realize not everybody is that way, which is fine. Stopping to think how a situation became the way it is might yield a better solution. It amazes me that some profess their knowledge when it is really just an opinion.

About this modern say SS that many speak of, I will believe it when I see it. In the Bush Admin. I read virtually the same thing coming from the left. I thought they were nuts as well. Oh well, to each their own and have a great day.

I looked for weeks for ammunition for one of the guns I have. Couldn't find any from Nampa to Twin. Checked the typical online stores - they were out as well. I finally did find some and ordered two boxes of 100. They had a 6 week backlog filling orders, but would at least take an order. Does that make me a Right-Wing Extremist?

VicVega:

Same here. We had been looking for a small hand gun for me to keep when I am alone. FINALLY got the one in that we wanted. Had a heck of a time getting ammunition and finally Cabellas' in Boise received a shipment. We were lucky. That was over a month ago. From what you say it must be worse now.

I guess that must make us both Right-Wing Wing Extremist? Huh? Better tell that to the targets I shoot. LOL

Kim, keep writing! I agree with MH Bouncer. If you do not write, they win. Keep up the good work. I must read the report now. Thanks for the link. I am a RWE "wackadoo" but that is okay. There are worse things. Have a great day everyone.

I don't understand why you call your self right wing extremist. From what I read that no where near discribes you guys, I think your paranoid and want to draw attention to yourselves and what you belive so you say this describes you. The way I read it a right wing extremeist is one who is going to turn violent in order to get there point across, ones like the white power groups, or the ones who set up camp and become vigilantes, none of you seem to fall into this catagory. Just my feelings.

You guys are always so negative about everything in the government. Is there anything that is positive, maybe the stock market starting to go up, houseing market starting to go up, two of the banks that recieved tarp money are now making a profit and making plans to start paying the money back, the government not giving two auto companies more money but having them file for bankruptcy. Now your job is to take these positives and turn them into negatives. Come on I know you can do it.

When the government says our military are extremists or are ripe to be extemists, I beg to differ. Looks like I am not the only one who doesn't like the Homeland Security report. My thinking is up there with the big boys.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20090415/D97J50P81.html

I think what they said is they are afraid the extremist are going to try to recruit some former military memebers who are unsatified with the way the military is. I don't read that as them saying that the miliary are extremsits or are ripe to be.

If I read it wrong please let me know but that is the way I understood it.

Smalltown I want to kow where you got the glasses you read with. Read the report. I mean actually read it. It characterizes most any conservative who believes the govrnment is getting out of hand with the spending and taxing that they are doing is now in the same boat as the white supremacists and the KKK. It says that because of the economic situation and the fact that we feel the liberal government will move against our rights such as the 1st and 2nd amendment, we will become dangerous to the safety of the nation.

NOWHERE in ANY of the reports does it mention the threat from foreign nationals within our borders. I actually thought the way DHS was supposed to work was to compile information and intelligence from all over the world as well as from within our borders from all agencies and draw conclusions on where we would best spend our time and money to protect ourselves. Now it seems we have to protect us from US. Not in ANY of the reports the DHS has put out does it even mention the threat from abroad, the threat from radical extemists set on killing Americans both here in this nation or abroad.

It now appears in the span of a few months that the only people we have to fear are people like Bazooka and myself. I guess if you are trying to move the nation into liberal socialism, tax us into being equals, taking away rights guaranteed us by our founders then you might be right.

Look at the report smalltown, read it for what it is. It is a manifesto to regulate things like weapons, ammunition, the right to assemble and the freedom of speech. I guess you won't believe it until they show up at your door with a warrant to sieze you and your computer for voicing your opinion in these blogs.

Remember smalltown how the Bush administration and the Attorney General used the 9\11 attacks to create the patriot acts. Remember how they used it to set up DHS. Remember how the liberals were up in arms over the fact that we, the US, were gonna spy on foreign nationals and citizens alike who may be attempting to cause harm to this nation. Remember how the ACLU screamed at the top of their liberal lungs to stop the use of GITMO and the holding of POWs in Cuba.

Now comes the Obama Express. Instead of watching those who actually want to hurt this country they are going to watch YOU. Are you a conservative, pro-life Christian, Veteran, Active Duty Military, middle class, working class, have you voiced your disappoinment with Obama, do you write into blogs? Then You my friend are a radical right wing extremist. You will be watched and the first chance they get they will use you to prove they were right and YOU may be the catalyst for sweeping changes whether they are constititionaly legal or not.

Sorry - the report didn't use "ripe". What they said is that military members having problems reintegrating once they return could lead to more extremist groups. I used the wrong word. But, here are 2 paragraphs and 2 paraphrases from the report. Comparing troops to Tim McVeigh is tough but the last example just isn't right to be said. Per the report: "The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today."

The next paragraph talks about how returning veterans - including Tim McVeigh - joined or associated with rightwing extremeists.

Next paragraph it is said that some returning military veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan have joined extremist groups.

This last one is a real kicker.

Another: Quote: "The possible passage of new restrictions on firearms and the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying our violent attacks."

And today's news:

First sentence of the article. "Republicans on Wednesday said a Homeland Security Department intelligence assessment unfairly characterizes military veterans as right-wing extremists." Here is the link for all to read.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20090415/D97J5OE02.html

Okay I read up to page 7 and I still disagree, when I read that I don't see them calling people who disagree with the government and peacefully blog and protest as who they are referring to. I read it as they are afraid that the extremist such as the malitias and vigilantes are going to recruit those who as of right now are peacefully protesting. That is how I read it.

If Homeland security is really out to get everyone who protests why didn't they just round everyone up at the tea parties today on some bogus charge and detain them all. I think you are reading way more into it. There is a big differnce between being right wing and being a right wing extrmist, the big differnce in the use of violence which is what the report from what I read was referring to.

Smalltown:

Makes no sense: You say the gov't doesn't see peaceful protestors and bloggers as a threat and that they are not referring to them. But, the next sentence you say that the gov't is afraid that the extremists are going to recruit these peaceful protestors.

Now, think this through okay?

If the gov't feels that these peaceful people might be recruited by extremist, then don't you think that the gov't DOES see these peaceful people as a potential threat?

the "potential" use of violence. Ergo the trained military.

I have religous beliefs and moral beliefs, I store food, guns and ammo, and I and my whole family are military or are prior military. According to the report, because I am what I am and I do what I do then I am an extremeist, and could be a threat.

No, I don't think the government considers the peacefull bloggers as a threat, what they see as the threat is the extremist who are going to try to get the peaceful bloggers to turn. Once a peaceful blogger turns than they will be considered a threat, until then no. I am not naieve enought to think they aren't monitoring the blogs and once they see something that concerns them they will watch closer. I am grateful for that, I hope they watch, I hope they keep an eye on a possible threat, but if a blogger keeps it non threating than they have nothing to worry about. They are not going to be concerned if you voice your opionion but if you turn to threatening people or groups of people than you have turned into the kind of right wing extrmsit they will watch.

Midea,

I again didn't read it that way, if you belonged to a right wing extremist organization and stock piled weapons and food, lived on a compond with those people than you would be considered a threat, not if you are a peaceful person who has weapons and food and have religious and moral beliefs. What they are afraid of again is that because people are unhappy they are afraid the extremist organizations are going to be able to convince people that the only way to change things is through violence.

From the top of the report it says that there is no information that DOMESTIC RIGHT WING TERRORIST

are currently planning of acts of violence but RIGHT WING EXTREMIST may be gaining new RECRUITS.

and the militray reference in full states:

Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to right wing extremist, DHS/I&A will attempt to recruit, radicalize returning veterans in order to boost their violent capabilities.

That is why I see it as them being afraid of the organizations not the peaceful protesters

Smalltown I have another perspective for you. Read the DHS report sent out on 26 Jan, 2009. It's the one defining the Left Wing extremists. All it talks about is the potential for those with the know how to cause CYBER attacks on the nation. Not real attacks. Not armed insurrection. Just the downlaoding of viruses on computers and the potnetial of disrupting our lives for a few days.

Ahh but there's the rub. The left wing extremists paper calls out groups like ELF and PETA by name. Saying that these groups will use cyber attacks to disrupt businesses by infiltrating their computers and deleiting files. WOW a vicious attack where information could be lost. Not life or property.

To read the DHS Left Wing paper you would think that these groups are no more dangerous than a simple hacker. HAH! Groups like PETA and ELF, the Sierra Club and Earth First are THE home grown terrorist organizations we should be watching. These groups are militant in nature and have casued MILLIONS of dollars of damage across this country. h They have done things that put peoples lives in mortal danger. From Chicken Plants to Ski Resorts lit on fire, to trees spiked so a logger can be killed or seriously injured when he hits one with his saw. And to dirt roads littered with deadman traps and home-made spike strips to damage ANY vehicle that drives on them. Think I'm kidding? I've seen the traps and spikes myself as close as the forests that surround Challis.

I've had to go to the seen of disturbances where wolf lovers have baracaded roads to keep ranchers and government trappers from doing their jobs. The confrontations coming to violence on more than one occasion.

Yet it is patriots who are the ones the government is most concerned about causing insurrection and violence. How intersting is that?Not once does it mention that right wing people might be smart enough to hack a computer. But you know why that isn't in the equation? Because then they wol dhave to police the internet. Then they would have to stop not only the right wing but the left as well. They can't use the hacking of a computer main frame in court or congress to denie you your rights to arms and speech and assembly.

It'a time to wake up small town. It's time to realize that this administraion isn't about the freedoms we have enjoyed but about what they can get way with before someone steps up and voices opposition to their plan....wait isn't that what happened today? I've been watching Fox News most of the day. I see where it's not old men or "suits", but young people, mothers, students, DEMOCRATS, that are starting to stand up for what they believe this country should be.

This president should be afraid of what might happen as more and more people become digusted with the rate this country is running it's slef into a hole. Yes it will be easy for these fringe groups to gain memebers and momentum because they are the right voice at the right time.

Reading what has been printed on the web and in print you would think it was Hannity and Limbaugh that started these Tea Parties. You would think that the Right Wing media single handedly brought THOUSANDS of people out in crappy weather to support the idea that we are a free people. But alas, that is what they left wants you to believe. They try to discredit these men because they FEAR them. These men give a national voice to what we believe in and help spread the word. They fear the TRUTH that is spoken. They Fear the light that is shown onto their schemes. Too bad!

Bazooka I hope to see a full accounting of todays events in Boise. Sorry I couldn't make it. Hopefully you didn't find any agents of the left mixed in to start the bad things. If you did have someone call me for your bail.

Why even debate with someone who voted for the first time in their life this year? I highly doubt she is well read in the area of politics, public policy, the Patriot Act or anything else. We are all just "paranoid freaks" (as mhg stated several times). To each their own.

Mike, it is like a debate with the Intern. Look at all of the people who believe Hitler never did the things he did. History will rewrite itself as it always does. Yep, change. So, tell more about the tea party please.

Does small town know of physics? Like most things, when the stock market and the housing markets came down as far and as fast as they did..all things bounce when they hit bottom. But in the end they will settle and stay at the bottom for some time until someone or something picks them up.

Bazookaman,

My son and husband thought it was pretty nice running into you at the Boise Tea Party. They enjoyed the heck out of it today. Guess they took up my slack.

The threat from right-wing terrorists is not made up, as Timothy McVeigh, The "Army of God" bomber who attacked the Olympics and an Atlanta gay bar, the neo-nazi in Maine just this past December, and the Klan's decades-long campaign of bombing and murder, among others, all amply prove.

I don't believe the existence of this report means the government views all right-wingers as terrorists, just as I don't believe the government or any thinking person views all Muslims as terrorists - It's an idea somewhat contrary to the specious conclusions some on here were willing to jump to about foreign-sounding surnames on Obama's inaugral donor list, though.

I'll be waiting to hear if any of the Tea Party protesters were detained and thrown into an asbestos-laden warehouse - which is what happened to protestors at 2004 Republican convention. THAT was oppression of freedom of speech. Issuing reports acknowledging that some terrorists are right-wing domestics is not.

Those protesters in 2004 were against wasteful government spending on ingrate foreigners and the idle rich. Unlike these protests yesterday against "wasteful" government spending on the American middle class. And ingrate foreigners. And those protests in 2004 were against totalitarian tactics like warrantless wiretapping and subversion of due process. The protests yesterday, against totalitarian tactics like - making further aid to a business conditional on a change in leadership.

And as far as Hitler and his genocidal regime go, if you're looking for a modern-day equivalent to Hitler's inhumane brutality, look no further than Wayne Anthony Ross, Sarah Palin's choice to be Alaska state Attorney General, who has said domestic violence "wouldn't be an issue if women would learn to keep their mouths shut."

By the way, is the Third Riech the ONLY historical allegory you can come up with for your allegations? How about the FBI surveillance on the civil rights movement of the '60s? Or the beatings and murders by local law enforcement of voter registration drive workers and civil rights marchers? The smearing of the movement as a "Communist conspiracy" by the John Birch Society and others? And, Bazooka Man, were those some of the marchers you were referring to when you posted-

"You know, there was a time when I used to see protest marches on television and think to myself....'damned radicals........'"

And, out of curiosity, have ANY of these things occurred to the Tea Partiers, or anyone, to justify that or a Third Reich comparison?

EIM, yes. I lost 2 members of my family in a concentration camp and had an aunt and uncle that were held but got out (they have since died). What does it really matter? None of us owned slaves but we have that thrown in our faces over and over again. So, what was the point? What does it really matter?

OM

I want to thank you for your kind words. You are right I did vote for the first time this year. Thank you for making so little of that. I think you are a cruel hearless and arrogant person the actual word I would use start with a capital B. I have never had anyone except my ex husband make me feel so worthless and like my opionion means nothing, I want to thank you for bringing me back to the worst time of my life. I will never again say anything on this blog I wish you all luck with your projects that you are working on.

I like the fact that these Tea Partiers give a hoot. I may not agree but at least they are motivated. I do find it humorous and disheartening at the same time that they make it out to be Romania in the 1980's or Stalinist Russia. When if one will come out of your stupor, it is nothing like that. Exaggerations and being unrealistic dont work for me.

Nice to know that liberals never live up to their word. I thought Intern said he was done writing in here? But it is nice to have that "alternate" opinion that helps keep the debate going. Small Town, I'm sorry your feelings were hurt but being a White, Catholic, pro-life, pro gun, middle income, wage earning, conservative male, I've had to grow a thick skin. It appears that men like me are always to blame for the wrongs and injustices of this world.

All that's ever been asked of you is to search for the truth. To quit drinking the kool-aid and think for yourself. To stop letting people form your opinions and actually have one of your own. To quit believing everything the left wing media tells you and actually search for more information to find the truth.

As a former police officer, I was taught from the beginning to acknowledge the obvious but also look for the the parts that don't fit. To look at something and not take it at face value so as to make sure you have the whole picture before you act. Not everything is as it seems on the surface. Read BOTH of the DHS reports on left AND right wing extremism. Look at what is there but also look at what ISN'T. The fact that some of the most violent domestic left wing groups are glossed over as so many computer hackers. The worse to fear from them is maybe having your account deleted. Now dig deepr and look at what PETA did to the Tyson Chicken processing plant. Or what Earth First did to the ski resort it opposed. Read what the animal rights activists are doing in this very state to protect a species of wolf that NEVER lived here to begin with. I've been there. I've had the threats made against me, against others who oppose them. But if we were to lift a hand against them then you would have people like Intern on their stump proclaiming we were a bunch of jack-booted thugs restricting free speech. Yes I've been called that as well.

Intern, did you even watch the news last night. Did you watch it on MSNBC or the Communist News Network? Did you see one bottle, one rock, one fist thrown at the police as it was in 2004? Did you see any of the conservative media stand up and shout "Death to Tyrants"? Did the police have to move in and protect the minority in the crowd as they did in 2004? These were PEACEFUL ASSEMMBLIES as guaranteed by the first amendment of the constitutions. There were no riots, no rocks or bottles, no molatov cocktails, no instigators, just CITIZENS of this country doing what the founders of this country said we should. The people jailed in 2004 were the instigators, the ones pushing the masses over the brink. When the police moved into remove them violence broke out. Having been in the duty of crowd control it is always a sound tactic to remove the intigators to help keep the peace. These people no more want a peaceful demonstration than you want to have "I love Rush" tattooed on your butt. They are only there to turn a demonstration ugly to make better headlines on the liberal news.

As for the Tea Parties, I saw white, black, asian, latino, male, female, young, old, democrat, republican and libritarian all side by side shouting for this adminisrtation to stop spending our childrens future. The all want a government that works FOR us. We are not subjects of this administrations. We do not bow to Obama as he passes. The politicians in government, locally, at the state level and in Washington work for US. We are the ones paying their wages. They were elected by us to represent all of us, not just those that gave them the most money.

Let me finish by asking Intern a question. Do you think if the elections were held today, after all that has come to pass in the last 80+ days, would Obama still be the one elected?

mhbouncer

I know I said I was done but I just have to respond, first I do think for myself and only believe half of what I am told and read because it depends on what the person writing believes as to what they write. I don't think the democrats are right and I don't think the republicans are right. I don't think PETA is right in how they protest I don't this Earth first are right when they burn places down, I don't think hackers are right when they hack into accounts, I don't think Ayres Nation is right when they hurt people because they are a different color, I don't think the vigilantes are right when they hurt people because of their beliefs, I don't think the President was right when he made the head of GM quit, I don't think we should have bailed out the banks, I don't think we should bail out the car companies, I think the banks should be made to refinance every adjustable rate loan to a low fixed rate, I don't think the credit card companies should be able to raise your interest rate if you are paying your bills on time. I think anyone who wants to protest should be able to do so as long as it is peaceful, even if I don't agree with them. But I also don't believe that the government is out to get you just because you don't agree with them, I think if your protest turn violent than they should go after you. I do believe in some kind of gun control but don't think the government should be able to come into your home and get your guns. I don't believe in abortion for myself but believe it should be a choice of all parties involved. I believe in free speech but don't think you should intentionally hurt someone. I believe that everyone capable of working should but help should be available if needed. I believe that our military are the best in the world and should be supported. I also believe there are good and bad people in this world and that sometimes the bad overshadows the good. I do believe in the budget to fix the infastructure of our country, I do believe we should fix the education of our country, I do believe that everyone should have some form of health care. I do know that these programs are going to cost a lot right now but in the long run will pay for themselves. These are a few things the I believe, and no one told me to think this way. I can actually think for myself and just because I don't always agree with what is said doesn't mean that I am just following the leader. I believe you should think for yourself and if you opinion is different you should be able to discuss it and not be accused of not being able to think for yourself. I don't think a person should be put down when the vote for the first time. I don't think you should put a person down if they don't know as much about a subject as you think they should.

Intern, you say that abortion is ok if all parties involved have a say? Who speaks for the weeks old infant the mother is carrying? Does it speak for itself or do people like me have to stand up for the rights of another human being to keep it from being destroyed? I'm pretty sure if the infant had a say he would be telling the doc to STOP!

By the way here is the link for the left wing extremists report. Read it and see how much it differs from the one Janet had to apologize for today.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Leftwing_Extremist_Threat.pdf

No talk of armed insurrection or rebellion there. But seeing who wrote the report what do ya think they would say.

And Intern, throughout your speech you never did answer my final question. Would Obama get elected today. A new Rasmussen report says it would be a dead even tie. Obama is currently losing support at 1% a week. And after yesterday I can see that number slide further. He still isn't listening to the people just his hand picked bunch of thieves and liars.

"Nice to know that liberals never live up to their word. I thought Intern said he was done writing in here? ... Let me finish by asking Intern a question. Do you think if the elections were held today, after all that has come to pass in the last 80+ days, would Obama still be the one elected?"

"And Intern, throughout your speech you never did answer my final question. Would Obama get elected today."

What speech? I have a job, I can't post instantaneously.

But now that I'm back, let's set the record straight before I answer your ridiculous question. What I said a couple months ago was:

"I'm mulling over whether there is merit in continuing a debate when the other side feels inclined to just make up 'facts' to support its position when the real facts don't."

I looked it up, that's a copy-and-paste. Go back and check the Feb. 10 "Monday's Thought" comment thread for yourself. No commitment, no promise, no guarantee, no "word" to "live up to."

But thanks for proving my point about the dishonesty and distortion that passes for debate here with so richly ironic an example.

He could win or lose, like all or almost all hypotheticals its dependent on fictitious variables. Is the voter turnout the same? Is McCain still his opponent?

If we're talking about "all that has come to pass in the last 80+ days," is McCain accountable for his vote to allow businesses to discriminate against women in pay rates? Is McCain's answer to the economy still "cut federal spending with a hatchet, then a scalpel"? Fewer programs, grants and contracts means layoffs for police, inspectors, librarians, water/sewer technicians, construction workers, all on top of the layoffs spurred by drawback in the private sectors. Do voters accept that or are they stubbornly insisting spending cuts won't compound the problem?

Is the conservative answer still get the government out of free markets so employers can pay us less and banks and merchants can charge us more? More privatization, like at the Peach Bottom nuclear plant?

Opinion Missy ought to read this one, she'll appreciate it on one level or another. The security force at the Peach Bottom nuclear plant got privatized - and I'm sure it was a "non-partisan" mix of conservative independents and Republicans, libertarians and "moderate" Democrats who pushed this brilliant idea too, maybe even "all side by side shouting," and, what do the new private-sector guards do? Sleep on the job. Not nod off once in a blue moon - the people clearing that awesome "free-market" bar for employee standards at a nuclear plant after 9/11 were bringing blankets and pillows to work.

I don't see the 53 percent who voted for Obama backing anyone else if the anti-government, anti-regulation movement has a viable candidate in the mix. His opponents would have to close the gap with voter turnout. It's certainly possible - there are still Americans who believe the past president who aided Saddam Hussein and the Jihadists in Afghanistan was something other than a failure.

Small town,

Thank you for voting. please continue to do so for the rest of your life. Please also continue to post. There are a few items in your last post where you and I would disagree. But I salute the fact that you took the time out of your day to go and vote your conscience. Sadly many in our county, state, and nation do not make that effort.

A few years ago I had a small role to play and a pretty good vantage point in watching an entire nation of citizens voting in their first free and open election. Much to the disappointment of the CNN and MSNBC's of the world (yeah we were watching them), the citizens of this nation turned out in droves. These citizens cast their first vote at the risk death, not only to them but death to their family members as well. Still they proudly raised their ink dipped fingers to show that they had voted. Here in the good U.S. of A. I don't think that there is any risk of death for voting. (Union things aside) Apparently though, only ridicule.

As usual, there is wonderful spirited debate going on here. In the process, many get red-faced heated about their opinions. I certainly understand that. I just wanted to say a few words of support.

Beau: I appreciated the post you made about voting. It is always good to be reminded of the fact that, thank God, we are still in a country where voting is relatively safe. Inspired as I watched that event you wrote about; people voting despite the danger and holding up their fingers with pride, I felt pride that my son with our military faithful were directly responsible for bringing them to that point. Yes, my heart felt great for those people and such relief that through all the horrors of war our people endured, good things were coming from it.

smalltown: I regret that emotions get high here. Passionate beliefs are commendable, yet at the same time, can hurt others. Please keep the comments coming despite that fact. I am always happy to see you posting. It doesn't matter to me whether or not I agree with your opinions. What does matter to me is that you and everyone else are making comments. Freely and without fear of retribution. I may not always support what someone writes but I will always support their right to write it! Thank you.

mhbouncer: I enjoyed reading your post of what you think is right and wrong. I agreed with so much of it. I am so proud of you and love to read your comments, as well as everyone elses.

Twilcox: You said, "exaggerations and being unrealistic" in your comment. I wish deep down in my soul that I could cling to that. Life would be so much easier to live, if I could shrug it off and think that all of these things happening with my country was exaggerated and unrealistic! How much simpler my life used to be. Please don't misunderstand me! I really want to believe those words. Unfortunately, my eyes, my ears and my mind have witnessed, heard and read too much to allow that sweet bliss of indifference to ever invade my life again. But oh how I yearn for those days of ignorance.

OM: My heart hurt to read of your families past. I know that you always carry their pain. I pray that you will see them again and be comforted in the here and now with the peaceful belief that they are in a far far better place.

To all commenters: I actually feel blessed that you share your thoughts and passionate beliefs, that deeper part of yourself with us. Believe me, I understand how difficult it can be to open yourself up, knowing that there will be another who may respond negatively or heatedly. Despite the danger of having your emotions and beliefs stomped on, all of you keep on writing. I just wanted to say thank you for that.

Bazookaman,

Just to answer I have been old enough to vote now for 24yrs not and never did. I lived in my own little bubble and didn't really care. Now that I care some people ridicule the fact that it was my first time voting. I did do some research on each canidate, probably not as much as you or as much as you think I should have. I just couldn't get past my distrust for McCain and really didn't like Palin. I don't believe in everything Obama, I don't think he walks on water and yes maybe I was caught up in all the hype, but I am overall pleased with the job he is doing. I am glad that he takes blame for past mistakes that the US has done, I do believe we had made many mistakes in the past and we should own up to them. I don't know alot about the government coming after people just because they can. I know it happens but don't research any of that. As far as the spending of this government, I think had we spent money on a lot of these issues in the past such as roads, education, health care we wouldn't have to spend so much now.

On a clear day, the hill in my back yard only rises 35 feet. It has certain physical properties. They do not change. I can objectively judge it without resorting to myths, god, fear of government, the world is out to get to me, or any other foolishness. Point being, that this doomsday theory garbage has been going on since 1776 and what makes the current right-wing of it any different. Objective, factual, and impartial are not qualities that I find commonly here. For example, illegals. Instead of going on about how this person said that and now EVERYBODY is going to be without a job, the border is flooded, there are millions upon millions of them pouring over the wall. So lets be realistic, its more like someone made a political statement that angered you, you now have fear, immigration rates are the same for 2007 as they have been for the last 10 years, and you feel that you have no recourse except for this. If you can give objective analysis about why a situation is the way it is and not just play the blame game,that would be a step forward.

Immigration is the same - okay. That is "legal" immigrants. What about "illegals"?

both the rates of legal immigration and illegal immigration have not seen huge spikes. This paranoid nonsense about how the flood gates have opened and now the US will become Mexico Pt. 2 is a bit over the top

Can you give me the references where you found the information so that I can read it please?

I'm sorry. I asked my question to Twilcox1978.

Yes, I will have it ready on Monday midea. I get my info from the census and Immigration and Naturalization. I chanced upon doing research on something else.

Umm...how many Illegal aliens in this country admit it to some one from the government when they show up at the door? From what ICE and the Border Patrol are saying, illegal immigrants are down because of the economic turn and a lot of them are actually headed back. From a recent report close to 1/3rd of Mexican Nationals live in this country both legal and illegal. The largest export into Mexico isn't guns as the left would have you believe, it's CASH. US dollars are routinley sent back to Mexico from families working here. $1500 dollars a month will help a sizable family live for several months due to the rate of exchage. But as our dollar weakens it is less profitable to stay here and work for such meager pay.

Bazooka, I'm glad I know now it was some sort of Dallas TV show dream. I'm glad to know that tomorrow I may wake from this nightmare and our country will actually be great again. What a load off my mind. Atually the load is what CNN and MSNBC are putting out over the air. Watching a CNN reporter get put in her place at one of the tea parties was classic. The people are tired of the same ol BS coming out of the white house and spread like manure over the country by so called news organizations. Call Fox News what you will but it is truly the only news channel that regularly has people form all sides of the issue actually debating instead of just handing out another cup of kool-aid.

So now tell me how Fox doctored the video of Obama bowing to a muslim king? How was the picture of Obama shaking Hugo Chavez hand altered? Chavez is a thug and terrorist in his own right. Making threats and having people "disappeared" so he can be President for Life. Tell me how the speeches Obama gave in Europe and Mexico were written by the right wing extemists to make him look like an idiot. Come on...apologizing for all the wrongs that we've done for the past 200 years? Like liberating France TWICE. Pushing Japan back to their little island and making them one of the greatest free market economies in the world? Feeding MILLIONS of poor and hungry. Being the world 911 call for help! It's ridiculous what's been portrayed in the left wing media. To watch them all we are are a bunch of radical exremists one bump away from total anarchy against the government.

Now that the conservatives in this nation have finally had a belly full and are standing up for our rights, we are now being persecuted for it. We are being investigated for alledged crimes, crimes only in the eyes of the administration that opposes basic freedoms and liberties. Now that we are the radicals holding rallies across the country, we are the enemy. Wow how good it feels to be in the crosshairs.

We have no idea how many people are here in a less than legal fashion. We do pay a great deal of money for their legal defenses when they get in trouble for dealing and cooking drugs. Then, we pay to keep them here in jail. Once they are done with jail, we pay to send them back. Then, they come back in and it start all over again. We have no clue how many are here and our government really does not care that they are here because they work for less which means more profit to the people who employ them. Go to a dairy with INS...see what happens.

When one aggregates hospital visits, employment numbers, and use historical averages the numbers have not had huge spikes in many years. The number of legal/illegal immigrants has stayed rather consistent. I do not condone the illegals. But having worked the blue collar jobs, I have seen first hand how us White bread americans refuse to take the low paying jobs even though it may be the only one offered. I know plenty of Americans who would not wash dishes, work out in the fields, or work in the slaughter house. They are some who would but they are many who think they are above that. Finally, if you want the prices of these products to stay low and affordable then dont complain about low wages and what results from them.

Yep...watched Obama at 6:00 a.m. today. Made me sick. Things are falling apart here but we are all over the world. Our house should be fixed first, IMO only of course. Why in the heck would you worry about your own people first?

Just as side note:

'Air Force One' is a designator, not a particular airplane. The Pres. could be onboard a Cessna 172 SE and it would still be called Air Force One.

Yep, never good to bite the hand that feeds you but I guess Mr. Obama forgot that. Nothing like going into a drug ruled country where the president (of Mexico) knows just what is going on yet turns his back to it. Yet, we are the bad guys. Fix your own house first!

I would be curious as to what he is trying to accomplish. I agree that one has to be diplomatic but this seems a bit too much. I know what the rest of you will say and thats fine. I dont buy into radical doomsday theory.

Apologizing to the French would seem a bit out of order. Lets forget the previous wars. Concerning Iraq they were opposed to the war and of course we were not. Disagreements happen. We did not need their help and we were not helping them so I dont see why any further diplomacy is needed. Yes, smoothing out relations with a country that imports a ton from us is good but in my opinion it is not needed. Their imports of our products has seen relatively little decline and as time goes on will come back. Isolating ourselves from the world did not work before. Yet on the other hand, going out of our way to smooth out relations with a nation that could get just get over it on their own is wasteful.

yes it is a bit strange. If we stood to gain from apologizing and doing things that way, I could see it to a small degree. Economically, they import alot of our products and always will. With or without this round of diplomacy, this trade balance with France and most of Europe would be fine. Maybe he thinks that trying to appeal to them even further will help that trade surplus grow and that will increase jobs and so on. I will keep it short but I am 100% opposed to Iraqinam but it is done. Some will disagree and some will not so let them disagree and move on.

Twilcox1978:

Regarding my request for the references for the legal and illegal immigration numbers; You said: "Yes, I will have it ready on Monday midea. I get my info from the census and Immigration and Naturalization. I chanced upon doing research on something else."

Did you by any chance find the references so that I can read them also? Or did you give them in one of your other comments today and I am just missing them when I read your posts?

Here's some info I found regarding illegal immigration. They say they are a "real time" source for illegals and supply the key numbers for illegal immigration. When looking at the numbers there is a category called: OTM illegals in country. The OTM stands for: Other Than Mexican. If you click on the data sources link in the very first paragraph you will see how the dataa was derived. There seems to be some really good articles listed to read also.

http://immigrationcounters.com/index.html

I have not been able to read a ton of this yet, but I will over the next few days.

This page explains how they get their data - their datasources. This is the link that I refer to in my previous paragraph. This really helps you to understand the report and how the info is derived. http://immigrationcounters.com/datasource.html

You know, I have been learning not to come down too hard on the ideas of others. However, I do feel compelled in this situation to 'call the baby ugly'--y'all are over-reacting and displaying signs of clinical paranoia. If you don't like Obama, vote against him next time. If you don't like the media, don't watch/read it. In fact, as many conservatively minded individuals have been saying for a long time, if you don't like America (which includes the current group of leaders), get out! I think the adage is, "Love it or leave it."

Republicans love to put forth the idea that the media is against them, etc. Well, we are seeing that the conservative media (Ms. Kovac's above blog is exhibit A) is against American success by spreading fear, malice, ignorance, and paranoia. The truth is, this all boils down to being immature and poor sports--our guy won and your guy lost. Get over it!

Yes, I have stated twice before that you are paranois freaks, and reading back over the responses from this blog, AND the Homeland Security Report, Im saying it again......for the 3rd time....you are very very scary folks...IMO only!

bazookaman

It's interesting--laughable even, in an ironic sense--that you can't see you're making my point for me.

"Barack Obama...is pushing us right into a socialist nation, the stars & stripes will eventually become yet another hammer & sickle with the U.N. at the head..."

"When he turns the GITMO terrorists loose on OUR streets..."

These are both statements consistent with the conservative tactic of fear-mongering. I wonder how many elections have been won because Republicans tried and succeeded in inspiring fear of the 'evil Democrats and their plans to ruin this country.' I might also mention that your claims are so oft repeated by the conservative talking heads that I am suspicious of whether you have been brainwashed, also using the tool of fear.

Actually, I am glad you brought up former President Bush. Sinclair Lewis once said, "When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Yes, this is a message possibly construed as fear-mongering. The difference between it and your statements is that the Lewis quote came true during the Bush administration. If you doubt me, look up the definition of facism.

You talk about honor. And you talk about Obama bad-mouthing our country. Daddy always taught me that an honorable man admits when he has made a mistake. Obama, being the President and therefore chief personification of our nation, has the honorable responsibility of admitting when we have done wrong. If you're not willing to admit we have done wrong, you have no right to say Obama lacks honor.

I may disagree with what he says most of the time but us more liberally minded need to be balanced by those who are not. If there was no opposition, we would become what we preach about.

It's almost funny, Bazooka Man, how you can go from baiting people who disagree with you on Monday -

"PS...........whatever happened to Ex-Intern Mike and his liberal buddies on these blogs?

I guess they don't have too much to say right now, after their 'savior's' first hundred days."

And then say you're not going to comment here any more when they do.

I still swing by every couple days to see what's shaking, and what's puzzled me the past few, Bazooka Man, is how someone can both be fearful the federal government is going to label "God-fearing, Patriotic Americans" as potential terrorists, and argue over on Kelley Everett's blog the federal government shouldn't "Have to play by the rules" when interrogating people its labelled as potential terrorists.

Opinion Missy, I'm truly sorry for the loss your family endured, but you're not understanding my question: For all the overheated rhetoric by some on here, what authoritarian measures have been taken against the people organizing the tea parties? Were their phones tapped? Were they detained without due process? Forced to relocate into substandard housing? Did the government dissolve the marriages of the organizers of the tea parties? Are they barred from owning businesses? Are their children expelled from schools because the organize tea parties? Did the police turn dogs and fire hoses on them? Are they being prohibited from voting? What has the federal government done in the past 100 days to warrant comparisons to the Third Reich or the civil rights struggle?

Looking at that list, I see seven nos and one maybe - and the federal government is no stranger to wire-tapping and while Obama is not proving to be an improvement there, none of the others he ran against would've been either.

Oh, and as far as reaching out to France and Saudi Arabia, there are 1,600 French soldiers fighting in Afghanistan - 10 killed in action back in August 2008, and NATO is contributing another 5,000, announced this month - some of whom will be French. They did draw back when we indicated we were well-staffed enough to fight two wars at once when we ... started a second war, but with Obama's planned gradual withdrawal from Iraq and his conciliatory tone they may be coaxed into taking a greater burden.

And our Presidents have catered to the Saudis for thirty years, and will continue to do so until we're off of our dependence on foreign oil, which we'd be temporarily if we drilled here and permenantly if Republicans don't block Obama's alternative energy agenda. Bowing to the Saudis is better than George H.W. Bush sending American troops into harm's way to defend their dictatorship because they're too cheap and lazy to defend it themselves. Or helping them sneak out of the country after 9/11 before the FBI could question them, like George W. Bush did.

Here are the definitions of Marxism, Socialism, and Communism: I found these in the online dictionary.

FASCISM

fas⋅cism /ˈf¿ʃɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA --noun

1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

2. (sometimes initial capital letter) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.

3. (initial capital letter) a fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922--43.

SOCIALISM:

so·cial·ism (sô'shə-lĭz'əm)n. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.Cite This Source

socialism:An economic system in which the production and distribution of goods are controlled substantially by the government rather than by private enterprise, and in which cooperation rather than competition guides economic activity. There are many varieties of socialism. Some socialists tolerate capitalism, as long as the government maintains the dominant influence over the economy; others insist on an abolition of private enterprise. All communists are socialists, but not all socialists are communists.

COMMUNISM:

com·mu·nism(kŏm'yə-nĭz'əm):n. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

Communism: A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat.

Communism Com"mu*nism\, n. A scheme of equalizing the social conditions of life; specifically, a scheme which contemplates the abolition of inequalities in the possession of property, as by distributing all wealth equally to all, or by holding all wealth in common for the equal use and advantage of all.

[French communisme, from commun, common, from Old French, from Latin commûnis; see commune2.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. Cite This Source