AIG and the government

I would want a bit more info before I made a blanket statement. If it is completely true, that is a bit disturbing.

I understand why the bailout was necessary for AIG. It has nothing to do with politics. It is simple pure economics. If we allow it to fail, people will panic and withdraw their money. Insurance claims can now not be paid. Insurance policies concerning cars, public works projects, Airlines and their planes, and that would be a disaster. A bank run does not just start and end with one establishment. Now, If all they spend the money on is paying creditors, shoring up claims, or simply productive measures, fine. Now wasting it on some morale-boosting getaway, not quite.

McCain would have faced the same issue and likely used similar measures so lets leave the partisan element out. This is different than a dictatorship, if one knows their history. True, other factors were in play at that time versus now.

This may have to do with the fact that the Federal Reserve is insulated from Congress and does not really answer to them. They wrote the contract and now Congress, a third party, is trying to amend it for their own good. Politicians and economists always have different goals in mind.

Great post as always Kim. Great info. So...I guess you did not approve of the recent 165 million in bonus bucks paid out that Obama states he will get back. How do you get something back...like money...once it is gone? Madoff is another fine example of this as well (and now he wants out of jail). Oh, they want to try to tax at 100% all bonus money paid by us after the first $100,000. Hmmmmmmmm.

This is capitalism at it's finest. If it was socialism, all the Ceo's would have been fired and control of said Institution would be put in the "public's" hands.

And the American government has been breaking contracts and treaties since it's formation. Nothing has changed in America just the faces have.

What you say is scary. It really is. I wish other people would wake up and see what is going on.

Today Obama says he wants to create yet another government office that will basically take the control of the money. He wants to make sure that the government has more control over large corporations who are failing and may be detrimental to the economy. How many more government offices do we have to pay for? And to top it all off he wants the congressional players to fast-track the legislation. In other words, do it quickly before anyone can say "no" to it. Here's a snippet of the article.

"Obama seeks greater rein on financial institutions". EXCITE News: by Jennifer Loven.

"He said he and his economic team have begun discussions with leading congressional players to fast-track legislation creating another regulatory entity to govern the dissolution of large financial institutions such as AIG, which if merely liquidated could reverberate disastrously through the financial system.

The so-called "resolution authority" would have powers similar but not identical to those of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation over banks, allowing for the protection of creditors, depositors and consumers without taxpayers left "holding the bag." Obama said this broader authority would allow the government to prevent "the kinds of systemic risks that we've seen taking place" with AIG."

What a story huh? Obama says it is to protect the people, but it's actually a way to take more control. I believe that our government is trying to gain as much control as they can grab. I think they have taken advantage of things and are using it all to their benefit. So scary.

I will abstain from discussing most of the topics. Our current money system is flawed but make no mistake if we were to go back to the gold standard, it would be a complete disaster. Inflation would go through the roof and investment would dry up faster than honesty from a politician. If you need history as an example simply look behind the textbook history of the Great Depression. Not just in the US but in Europe and the Middle East. All of the countries that held onto the Gold Standard had prolonged unemployment and interest rates that went skyhigh. Overall, I dont have all the answers but I know that going back to the Gold Standard would be naive and ignorant.

Bazooka:you poor confused old man.

The John Birch Society? Wow, I thought they had gone the way of the KKK. Living in shacks, making moonshine and wearing bedsheets while they terrorize citizens on the basis of skin color. This is the same John Birch Society that opposed Civil Rights legislation on the basis that civil rights was a communist ideology. And the same society the labeled Dr. Martin Luther King as a communist agitator. And the same society that leaned towards antisemitism, because they thought the Jews were a part of a cabal of bankers intent on a One World Order. Bazooka, was the confederate party too extreme for you in their outright racist views, and now your apart of a league of conspiracy nuts who hide their racism behind a clock of gentility and nationalistic pride? Nice choice, you've sloughed off one racist group for another. Your evolving from a water snake into a stinger-less scorpion.

Bazooka:

I have an original copy of "None Dare Call it Treason" I'll sell to ya for 50 bucks. It's too infantile in it's rhetoric and B.S. to remain on my book shelf. I also own "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" which is very Archie Bunker. You'd like that one as well. Let me know if you would like these two teenybopper books and we can work out some clock and dagger deal, midnight exchange on a grassy hill, ya know. I'll be the second shooter behind the fence and you can be James Earl Ray just arriving from Memphis.

(remember what I said about the Black Hundred and the Pinkerton's?)

I better make fun of myself on the spelling of cloak first, before anyone else does.

It's CLOAK you fool! Not clock. What a jerk!

One thing that never gets brought up is that some people have and always will push the limits of the constitution. In response, public outcry from both sides persuades politicians and supreme court judges to make short-sighted decisions. I am not sure which is worse the offender or the official that answers to the public and pushes things out of equilibrium

Great spirited debate here! I love seeing the minds working. I also saw a new person. Welcome midea. Thanks for posting. The Congress are passing legislation to tax bonuses 90% of companies that have received federal assistance. Of course, the general idea is to get the money back for "the people" Everything that they ar doing is to show the outraged people that they are all for them. Right? Well, only you, the people with the great minds, can make that distinction. My mind has told me that this will be the foot-hold needed to continue to take control. As many of you have realized, this was a perfect situation created by the Fed Reserve to cause outrage at the people who got the bonus so they could ride in on their white horses and save the day! They will tax bonuses and get names. It almost sounded like a "Witch Hunt"! "Give us the names of these "criminals" who took the bonuses. How scary is that?

So my question is, where can this legislation lead? Will any business that gets a government loan or assistance fall under this? Does that mean that all those people who are paid less for their work with the promise of a bonus at the end of the quarter or year, will now receive a few dollars while the government takes 90%? Contracts and agreements mean less than the paper it is written on. And yes, this country has always had ways to get around the Constitution and laws but the difference now is that it is in full view of the public, splashed all over the news in a slap-your-face kinda way. This isn't subtle!

ACORN and it's people have been charged with multiple cases of voter fraud. This the organization that Obama appoints to help? Another slap-in-the-face, America! Our President is telling us that HE is in control. He makes the decisions and anyone who speaks out against him, he tells his media hounds to follow and destroy publically. Take Rush for example. It was reported that when Obama heard his speech, he called all of the White House media staff and ordered them to watch him, listen to him and get anything that they could out in public to discredit him. He reacts like a King who has been slighted by one of his Earls. He will seek and destroy.

Wow, really. Sounds like your defending criminals that reward themselves for being criminal. I mean come on, how do those filthy rich animals think that they can reward themselves after they've screwed with peoples lives and the American economy? Your grasping at conspiracies and are beginning to sound like the nuts who wear tinfoil hats to keep the Government out of their head.

Are you going to defend those companies that received bailouts that didn't pay taxes as well? Corporations and banks have shown that they are unable to regulate themselves and it's time that regulations are put back in-front of them. Otherwise they will continue to con us citizens and screw us over.

Why don't you attack Obama for comparing his bowling skills to that of the special Olympics? I can support you in that opinion. And then at least your anger would based in reality.

Yup, we need to deport outwardly ignorant racist such as your self, Bazooka. You give the rest of us Americans a bad name with your Gothic societies and attitudes. The history of your clubs, is a foot in your mouth. And I would be curious to hear from you what it means "to go back to the way America was or how it was conceived to be?" And what time frame you'd like to take us back to?

And if using "race card" is all you got against me, your doomed to failure.

If you feel that having a large tariff would be helpful just do some reading on the Smoot-Hawley Tariff. It was a complete disaster and helped the depression happen. Also indirectly led to Europe's economic downturn and subsequent war. International Trade has always and will always be a key component to any nation having a sound economy. Protectionist policies when taken too far result in situations like Russian in the early 1900's and China in the 1960's.

And a another question, where were your birch members when us radicals were protesting the formation of NAFTA and NAU, and getting our heads cracked by state funded vigilantes? More then likely sitting at home giggling, wishing you were doing the clubbing. You just sit around talking of changing things and never get in the fight. Why? Because you and your gang are a part of the system and the problem, though you won't admit it.

the U.N. may have its issues but not to keep referring to history but if we would have cooperated with one another. WWI and WWII may not have happened or on a much smaller scale. To maximize the well-being of all. One needs some cooperation. Being sovereign and isolated sounds good but have you thought that there might be consequences to this. We will not always be the dominant military or economic power. There is evidence that we will be second to China in the foreseeable future. They did not climb the ranks by shutting their doors to the world. Do you make money by selling your labor to yourself? No, of course you do not. You need others to make all aspects of life happen. Why produce if there is no demand. Americans, if fully utilized, can produce more than they need so why not export it. One cant export to an unwilling partner. Net exports go down and no what do you have, Lower GDP. Hmmm.... can you guess what that means?

to get back to the main point, the bailout looks good on paper and in textbooks. The lesson to be learned is that no one is going to be 100% efficient in all their transactions. There is going to be waste. Forcing to the company to shrink in size may be a better solution than to keep feeding them funds. The sheer size of the company and its enormous market share make this the risk that it is. Divide the risk and shrink the dollar amounts. Americans need to not endorse high risk ventures. We do that by jacking up the stock price and seeking risky mortgages that inflate numbers beyond what they really represent.

So, how about the most recent crap with AIG...the bonus money paid was larger and MORE than stated. How do you tax money at 90% that is not even in the US?

Yep, Obama is in charge and it shows. He is a crook and should be in jail along with his friends that do not pay their taxes and the ACORN folks that fixed the vote with dead people, etc. Why does Obama surround himself with criminals and do business with criminals? Well, because you are what you eat. Nice comment he made regarding his bowling and the Special Olympics---that was class. Oh, and the dog comment as well. He is really something.

Yep, change I can believe in. Censored, you are a class A JA.

Think of where we would be if people like the AIG folks did not run the world with their greed and ignorance. Pay based on performance. What a concept.

O.M.

Why am I a Class A JA? Because I see Bazookas societies for what they are and what they've supported in the past?

No it's your fault Bazooka for being such a dirty conservative zombie. You to OM.

And I'm not a Democrat. So you can call me names all you want.

And Bazooka, You never answered my questions: "And I would be curious to hear from you what you mean, "to go back to the way America was or how it was conceived to be?" And what time frame you'd like to take us back to?"

And:

"where were your birch members when us radicals were protesting the formation of NAFTA and NAU?"

And again, you people will sit around complaining about crap, and yet do nothing about it. Except join up with racist gangs. Specifically, the John Birch Society and the Confederate Party.

So all they did was advertise. That really is a big help, but they did not get down from their easy chairs to picket and protest along with the radicals who were out getting beat down by your "jackboot" fascists. Sending Emails, letters, and putting up signs doesn't do D#@k, when they're only targeted to a certain audience. Like the middle class, who have forgotten what it means to struggle and fight when they're being screwed. All they see is their pocket book/bank account and only want to keep it full. They don't care about what the government is up to as long as it doesn't interfere with their daily T.V. shows and consumption of useless luxury items. And speaking in terms of the middle class, there would be no middle class if it weren't for radicalized union men who stood up to governmental and corporate tyranny to get better wages and safer working conditions. These same working men and women who were demonized as communist through out the late 1800's and early 1900's. If it hadn't have been for these radicals you people would still be living in squall-er and oppression at the hands of industrialist with the backing of your fabled patriotic constitutionalists government, with the help of groups such as JBS. There has never been true democracy in the U.S., only false hope. There has never been a government that actually works for the people. When was the last time the government listened to it's people? Did they ever listen when the overwhelming majority of Americans said we don't want this war? Any war? Because almost ever war we've had, the majority of the citizens were against them. Did the government listen? Nope. They certainly didn't listen when the majority of Americans were protesting Bush1 and 2's wars. They don't listen when the majority of Americans say we don't want your new taxes, or we don't want your patriot act. The fact is, the Government has never listened to the people unless there is mass unrest, like during the civil rights days. Mass unrest that threatens their power structure. And their power structure has always been based on getting rich, on the backs of the working class and the poor, and staying rich. The only Voices that the Government has ever heard "Willingly" is the Voices of the Corporations, the voices of the super-rich. That's why you get Corporate Bails outs, Bank Bail Outs, instead of Peoples Bail Outs. Your Government Favors big business ahead of the people. To the Government we are only taxes, we are only funding of wars, we are only mechanisms to make and keep them rich. We are only servile beasts that serve to fight their wars. Jack London, the author of White Fang, gave this power structure of Corporations and Government the title of "The Iron Heel". The "iron heel" that walks upon "our faces" and "flaunts it's abuse of power". And I say, "No Bazooka, there has never been a Government in America for the people, unless the people happened to be the super rich or the devils in suits making the laws." So keep dreaming of a place where the government worked for you. Because that's all it is, a dream. We are the dumb masses, the willing participants in their rise to power.

And I am no more a socialist then I am a Republican or a Democrat. I am no more a Communist then I am minuteman. All of those groups in the end, only want power not equality. The only group I'll ever stand by is the poor and the working class. And I will never side with the patriots, because the patriots have always been "used" by the politicians and corporations, to crack the skulls and walk on the faces, of the "common people" who only wanted equality.

You, Bazooka, live in a Norman Rockwell fantasy.

Hey Bazooka and OM, Good to be back in the fight after being gome for a bit. I saw a t-shirt that fits this blog quite well. "Bigot-A Conservative winning an argument against a Liberal". The Archie Bunker comment made me think of that. You guys truly do need to call censored what he is...besides a class A J/A. He's a dyed in the wool, torch carrying, LIBERAL. The type that believes the only thought that matters is their own. They will eat their own..as witnessed in the DNC debates between Hillary and Obama...then turn around and want to eat yours too. They believe in equality as long as they are more equal than you. They believe the money they make belongs to them and the money YOU make belongs to them. They could care less about human rights unless it gets them 15 minutes of airtime on CBS. They scream out for equality, for damnation of atrocities around the globe yet in the next breath demand that a human being be murdered in the name of science..or...because the mother decided she truly didn't want a child and made a CHOICE. Forget it Bazooka and OM..you will never CHANGE people like censored. They are too wrapped in themselves to care what YOU have to say. Unless you agree with them they will ALWAYS attack your ideas and ideals. They will never truly be happy until the whole world thinks as they do. And at that point they will change their collective minds and decide they believe in something else. I honestly believe there is nothing that flops faster than a true LIBERAL.

I hope that the "Norman Rockwell" world Bazooka lives in is true. It WAS at one time. Mr. Rockwell painted what he saw. At one time the world was like that. But now greed and evil and sin have turned it more and more like an Orwell novel. Don't think that will change anytime soon with THIS administration. Keep up the good fight Kim, Bazooka and OM...I'm there BESIDE you....not behind you as most LIBERALS like to stand.

Ohh by the way...don't miss Obamessiah tonight giving another "Press Conference"..hope he can muster a more sober approach than he did on 60 Minutes....but then he WILL have his teleprompter with him tonight telling him to "Get Angry!"

Bazooka,

The past had its issues. They are well known and well defined. Just wanting to harken back to simpler times is not the answer. This philosophy is what started the disaster known as WWI and ultimately WWII.

Finally I can agree with you on censored. Everytime I have to respond to a blog where you spout your dumb@$$, one world all happy smiley people philosophy, I AM slamming my head against the wall of ignorance. Once again when presented with truthful, intelligent response you go back to your neanderthal ways and start belittling and bullying. I've seen it time and again on these blogs, on news shows...yes even O'Reilly. Left wing nut jobs like you get on and rant and rave until you are flat out ignored by those of us with an intelligent opinion and common sense. You fail to have an answer to what you've been given so you attack a person on their personal beliefs instead of coming up with solutions to the problems. Your Messiah did it tonight....he blamed EVERYONE...including congress for the mistakes that HIS personal, hand picked bunch of thugs and thieves have done for the past 64 days. He blamed Bush for turning a $1.3 BILLION deficit into one that is going to be over 3 BILLION. He blamed congress for passing the stimulus plan without even reading it. Yet wasn't he the one on TV, in print media and in person playing Chicken Little telling everyone the sky would fall if his plan didn't get passed in the fastest amount of time? Isn't that exactly what his puppets, Pilosy and Reed do. They rushed through a bill, gave NO ONE time to read all the pork the thing was stuffed with.

It's ok censored, attack me, attack people like Rush and O'Reilly, some of usa ctually enjoy the witty banter and the chance to club a liberal with FACTS instead of name calling.

mhbouncer:

Yeah, and you didn't attack first, did ya? And you didn't ask any questions. Another thing, you've given no facts to anything and further you didn't write any truthful, intelligent remarks. And where did you find this "one world, happy smiling people" crap? Again as far as Obama (and his gang) are concerned, I consider them in the same whorish boat as the rest of the politicians and mindless talking heads, right or left. So keep mixing up your P and Q's. Or maybe it's just hard for you to conceive of someone not following along the right, left or center lines? It's hard, but someday you'll get it.

And this whole statement goes down both dem and republican lines,"They will never truly be happy until the whole world thinks as they do. And at that point they will change their collective minds and decide they believe in something else. I honestly believe there is nothing that flops faster than a true LIBERAL (or conservative)."

Neanderthal ways? Your kidding yourself, my dear.

Bazooka:

How does understanding the past cause WWI and WWII?(define that statement)

And as a matter of fact I've read plenty of your blogs looking back to the nostalgic past in search of fixes for today. And your nostalgia always leaves out something anyway so they are dismissible.

Keep it up fellas, and maybe you'll get to the point of talking for yourselves, instead of repeat, repeat, puking out statements from the t.v. man.

Facts, truth, intelligence, facts, reading, checking out what is said...FACTS! That is what we must continue to talk about. All debate should lead to researching the facts and finding the truth. Question everything! That is what I like to see. Thanks, guys! Hopefully, we can keep debating without hurting each other.

Censored, if you had actually been reading my comments n these blogs you wold know I had actually been complaining about Obamassiah not being able to speak without a written script in front of him since the first days after his inauguration. Maybe I should contact Mr. Limbaugh and ask him for royalties for the statement?

As for what I had written to BAZOOKA, I was outlining what I have come to see is the heart of a true liberal. And yes YOU censored have taken up that flag elegantly here in these blogs. As we stand at the doorstep of liberal socialism, I watch with dread in my heart. I see government growing by leaps and bounds as those currently in control invent new and wondrous ways to take away our freedoms or oppress them with layers and layers of bureaucracy. Our national debt that was already high under Bush now is going to nearly TRIPLE with the vote of the congress and the swipe of a pen. But you , in your rosy little world, can only blame the past 8 years of Bush for the mess we're in. It's time Obama and his thieves took responsibility for their actions (or inactions) and LISTEN to the populace for once. As I see more and more of the central democrats start to turn against their "Hope for Change", as I see the national news media start to treat Obama as they did Bush, I can see that the government has truly stopped listening to us. All the Democrats care about is the absolute power they have and how much they can get away with before the next election cycle. When Joe Welfare realizes he hasn't gotten anything promised to him by this administration. When the former employees of the businesses run out of business because of the taxes being paid realize why they are on unemployment. When this country as a whole realize they were lied to from the beginning by Obama AND the democrats in office, it will be the beginning of the end for the Democrat party as we see it today. But the question is, Can we afford to sit back and watch it happen or do we stand up for what we believe in and shout down the liberal socialism that is spreading throughout our country today.

I agree Bazooka, I thought twice before I logged onto here. I knew when I did I was gonna lose my temper. But I feel better now. As far as deporting the liberals, alot of them are ACLU card packing lawyers, they'd figure out a loophole and we'd wind up on the wrong side of the fence.

my only comment here will be that Americans as a whole need to keep their bleeding heart in their chest and realize that some will be poor and disadvantaged. Helping everyone and borrowing to put everyone on equal footing only works if those people are maximizing given their collective inputs. Sitting around and not giving a hoot is not maximizing one's resources. Those who want to succeed should be given every opportunity and those who are too depressed or whatever should be left in their own squallor. I like Obama but spreading the wealth to every human that exists within our borders and even to those outside of them does not always yield results.

Oh my..twilcox is starting to see the light. Soon maybe even he will see HIS president for what he truly is. Have faith my brother, change may be coming for you.

Jesus Buddha and all that. Your not getting socialism, your getting state capitalism like Mussolini. State Capitalism is not socialism it's fascism and fascism is from the far "right" of the isle. And the American Government has always been corrupt in one form or another. Again you two guys just can't admit it because it would destroy your patriotic fantasies.

And this statement has been going on throughout the history of America and still is:

"Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work, and give to those who would not."

As in the rich using it's power to abuse the working class.

"Burn the Rich, Feed the Poor."

Yeah and if it wasn't for the working class masses there would be no industry. It's the working class that fill the jobs, if it wasn't for us the rich wouldn't be-able to create anything except stink. And yes I have gotten a job from a poor guy, you can trust them not to screw ya over like CEO. And you don't need to be a rich scumbag to own a business. Your generalizing about the poor,(drop outs and such) America has never had enough jobs to employ everyone so you are left with a fair amount of people needing assistance. Hmmmm, not to mention the fact that most Large American companies ship jobs out of country so said companies can make extra money off of nations that have no labor laws. I still don't understand why you people defend these corporations and bankers that consistently screw the little people over. Why give loyalty to an entity that would sooner stab you in the back then pay you fair wage? You people have strange ways. And I've said time and again that the re-pubes and demcraps are the same coin with different means of ******* on ya. Take it or leave it, join one or the other. Either way your screwed coming and going. And I don't blame just Bush2, I blame Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton all them ****** for deregulations and shady schemes perpetrated to help the rich get richer and the poor stay poor. And it was the Dem's who told the citizens to spend, ya know, buy our way out of this "crisis".

But then again, you were in the military, so you got paid and housed even if you weren't doing anything. So I guess I can see why you got issues with the welfare system and the working class getting a fair deal. Speaking of military, there's a society that is very much like socialism. Strange? Bet ya didn't complain about it then.

And again, "State Capitalism", Mussolini style, is where we're headed, not Socialism. Look it up.

So, yeah! Ceo's heads on plates with apples in their mouths,like a pig roast. I'd bet that their meat is rich in fat and flavor. Sweat meats for the poor. We'd be getting rid of a large cross section of criminals by eating those scabby jerks not to mention giving some nourishment to needy children. Then after we've had our way with the Ceo's, we could go after the politicians. I'd bet that their meat is as tender as baby calf. Yummy, boil them in milk and honey.

About why these companies farm out their production. Its pure and simple economics. Americans demand high wages no matter the job. We have grown arrogant and feel that we are above certain jobs. To make the expected profit, they need to cut costs. There is more to this game than pampered CEOs that want to make an extra million by outsourcing. They have stockholders and they have to think about the future. Why break the bank now so that one has to lay them off in the future. We crave stability. That is what AEHI is using as bait.

bazooka:

I never said the middle class carries anything. Might be alzheimer's? I said it was the unions that pretty much built the middle class. It's the poor working class that carry the load. And once all the power is stripped from those unions the middle class are going to end up back in shanty towns with a straw boss beating them with clubs every morning. But whatever you say pal.

And it wasn't the military that built the internet or created free speech. If things we're left to the military to control, there would be no freedom at all. As you've said before, "I've been there, man."

Freak-in auditoriums, get off your high horse.

You sit around and think you know some shizz because you were once a military lackey. And I'm saying, just by the mere fact that you joined, let yourself be brainwashed with patriotic rhetoric, that you can't see the broad side of a barn with a pair of binoculars at 10 yards. Your so entrenched in your own hogwash that you can't think with anything even remotely close to clarity.

Twilcox:

Arrogance has nothing to do with being paid a fair wage. Arrogance, is large corporations and banks getting bail-outs so they don't fail, and instead of putting the money to helpful means, they give themselves million dollar bonuses and private jets. Screw your "pure and simple economics." If economics means taking jobs from people here and oppressing people in other nations, then economics needs to be burned at the stake and civilization dissolved.

Blasted free loaders! While your taking everything from everybody, I think it's time to stop paying retirement pay to the ex-military as well as their health insurance. They aren't doing anything for society anymore except for complaining about how much things have changed. They're out of service, so why should they get paid to sit around collecting dust and bone spurs? Put them back to work picking up trash so they don't sit around getting crotchety and paranoid. The dirty leeches.

This is pure common sense but I shall let it be known. I did not think that this had to be written. Employment is a contract that one will assist in the revenue-generating operations of a company. No revenue equals no pay. Not too difficult to understand I hope. Deciding to breathe and show up for work is not a quarantee of wages. If there is a better use for the employers money they are going to use it. Cant always have a bleeding heart because those same individuals that accepted wages will not help you out when one has spent all of one's money. This is the principal of risk.

Now that we all know that life is uncertain and does not always lend itself to sustained income. If one's employees are costing more than they contribute then it is time for change. Cant continue to be inefficient because you know that someone else will do better and leave one behind. Americans have been enfranchised with this thought that they are owed high wages. Manufacturing is a key example. Prices of inputs go up and down no matter how good the management is. Labor does not and always continues to rise. Wages do not reflect what they contribute to the bottom line. If one does not like this, then go live in Nunavut where one only produces for oneself. Overall, the point is that we need to lower our standards. Lowering our wages in these key industries such as manufacturing autos, TVs, etc. would help those companies not go under. There are other issues but feeling that Americans deserve jobs just because they are American is foolhardy.

FASCISTS?? Did you really call all members of the military, prior and present fascists? Did you call ALL conservatives FASCIST because we have an ideal that a man should be what he makes of HIMSELF and not what others give him? Have you lost what little common sense you had? Did you tell a former member of the military that he didn't fight for the freedoms we ALL enjoy in this country?

Who do you think you are? To make a comment like that to the very people who have protected our rights, our constitution for over 200 years? What have you done in your miserable little life but whine and complain about what others have and you have not. It turns my stomach to listen to people like you spout your version of the TRUTH. YOU HAVE NO IDEA what men and women in uniform have done for this country as well as other countries around the globe. Men and women not only fight the wars but build hospitals and schools, give immunizations. Build infrastructure in 3rd world countries to make a better life for those that live there. We don't occupy these countries. We come as friends and help. Yes, we do fight the battles that our government deems worthy. But before you get up on your soap box again, you'd better look and see who has gotten us into most of the wars to date, including THIS one. DEMOCRATS! LIBERALS! This war (can we still call it a war now?) started long before Bush got into office. Our wonderful President Clinton paid more attention to the ***** under his desk than he did the world around us. He made us weak and made us LOOK weak in our enemies eyes. He had several chances to make a strong statement against terrorism but instead did practically NOTHING. The embassies, the USS Cole, the first Trade Center bombing, SOMALIA! Instead of going after those responsible he had a handy little trial for those he actually caught and that was the end of it all. In Somalia he allowed members of our special forces to DIE FOR NO REASON! He allowed a measly little warlord of a second rate nation make the greatest nation on earth turn tail and run. Instead of going in full force and returning a government to that country he pulled our troops out. Sounds alot like the new Messiah doesn't it. Afraid of his followers turning against him he sways with popular opinion. When THOUSANDS of vets stood up against him a couple weeks ago, he backed down like the coward he is.

You know what censored, come with me. Stand outside the fence as the F-15's from two countries thunder into the air. Or later this year when we add the German Air Force's Tornado's and the Israeli F-16's to that symphony. Let me show you what freedom is censored. Let me lead you around the base and let you talk to the men and women of our Air Force. You do know there are Dems and Republicans alike out there right? Talk to them and let them tell you WHY they feel what they are doing is important. ASK them if they feel like they are protecting our freedoms here at home by combating terrorism abroad. OPEN YOUR MIND censored. You have a narrow, shallow view of this world my friend. There are truly people out there who want to take away our freedoms, people who really want to kill us just because we are AMERICAN. It's people like Bazooka who have come before us, my wife who currently serves and my son that is getting ready to join that have the guts, the heart, the drive to do what the president, no matter what party he represents, asks them to do at a moments notice.

I used to listen to people like you when I was a cop and when I worked the ambulance. All I ever did was drive around in my cop car or sit around the ambulance station and did nothing. But when the crap hit the fan people like you wanted, NO, NEEDED us there to save your life, to protect your property. The Armed Forces are the same way. I'd rather have them ready and NEVER need them than to not have them at all. People currently serving are willing, at the drop of a hat, to go anywhere across this planet to protect the interests of the UNITED STATES.

Look at history censored. Look at what has happened to countries who have put blind faith in their leaders. Look at what has happened when countries have given leaders too much power over them. They have been CRUSHED by dictators, some in the guise of the shepherd of the flock. All it took was time and a great speech, a great smile. Then BANG, people were at war, imprisoned and killed for their beliefs. Liberal Socialism is here, wait for it to consume what's left of the rights guaranteed by our constitution if you like. I'd rather fight to my last breath to defend what so many others have died for.

I have respect for the military and those who serve. I have thought about enlisting at times but I am not going to fight and possibly die in a battle that does not need to be fought.

But seriously are you suffering from dimentia. A violent uprising may be good fodder for a novel but its unrealistic. If you are in such a hurry to die, why wait for a futile revolt that will not yield the result that you want? If you need proof, look at the French Revolution and the October Revolution in Russia 1917. A few riled up conservatives in Idaho are not going to make a dent against our military.

If Americans want change, they have to hit the politicians in the pocket book. Dont follow the trend. I dont like gun control laws either but the bad apples always ruin it for the bunch. We enjoy the luxury of being numerous and therefore having ample resources. America being so populated and so spread out made the Constitution what it is. It was not just being good men and all that poetic stuff. One cannot enforce laws from 1000 miles away when all one has is horse and buggy.

not to counter everything that you say but Russia is poor. The cold war era was a lie. they were always swimming in a sea of debt. Russia is and always has been a poor farming country. This illusion of the big bad Russian is a bit overstated. They do have one advantage and that is geographical spread. Spanning 7000 miles from West to East gives one a few advantages. Their military is virtually bankrupt. Even though, they have modernized a bit, the totalitarian regime is back for the most part. Putin is not a good guy.

Twilcox, the Russians as they like to be known as now, over spent in their miltary for decades. They spent their future generations future buy building more missles, building more tanks, manufacturing more AK-47's. They failed to do anything for their people except get them ready for the next war to be fought. Luckily it never came down to that. Reagan looked them in the eye and dared them to try. The only reason the Nazis didn't take Russia in WW2 was because the Russians had more people willing to fight and more tanks and hardware to stop them. They never got out of that mentallity. Today you see what it got them.

The United States on the other hand has tried and tried to keep a standing Military ready to defend ourselves all the while we tried to take care of things at home.

To take up another point, has there ever been a battle that didn't need to be fought? Can you honestly say it would be a better world of Sadam was still the dictator of Iraq? If the Taliban was still in charge of Afghanistan? Can you say the world would not be safer if we finally got and killed Bin Laden? Tell the truth, you are just plain afraid to die. It doesn't matter the cause, you just won't give up your life for it. If you think the US military will roll through the streets of Mountain Home to take your weapons you're dead wrong. It has always been a soldiers perogative to say NO to an illegal order. To strip a person of their right to bear arms is a constitutional violation. Although there may be a few misguided people out there who might try, a majority of the people who fight for this country, democrat and republican, would sooner stand shoulder to shoulder with Bazooka. These men and women who fight for your right to live free, twilcox, are also people who swore to protect and defend the United States AND the Constitution. To be told to violate the costitution would be an agrregious offense punshible by court's martial.

For over 200 years the citizens of these United States have risen up to defend our country and to opress tyranny throughout the world. We have been the "go to" guys for the world. Now that we need to take care of things in the interest of our own country we are being touted as the great evil in the world. Don't ya love how they bite the hand that has fed them (literally)for oh so long.

I am sorry that you are so bitter but thats life. To each their own. You can ignore it but Russia has never been an industrial giant. The so-called prosperity of the past was a sham. It was simply a government going into debt and it finally collapsing. Russia did arm themself but there is wide spread knowledge that the reason that they did commence the war was poor infrastructure. They did not have the food supply, supply line, or diplomatic relations to withstand a modern war.

It is not the duty of Americans to make everybody's life better. You bring up Iraq, what about all the other countries that have endured a civil war or a cruel dictator. Where do you draw the line? And no, I am not dying in Iraq for no good reason. For the simple reason that once we pull out, they will resume their autocratic ways. It has been shown before. If there was an actual invasion of the US and it was not a peacekeeping mission, I would be the first in line to enlist.Has the war in Iraq made life in America better, NO? Maybe I am out of my mind, but I dont undertake major actions without knowing there will be a benefit for myself or my loved ones. Enlisting so that i can be gunned down in Iraq does not benefit America nor my family.

YAY...we finally have a blog where sensible, intelligent ideas can be debated without someone coming along and attacking us for it. We can now have a spirited debate over real issues without all the name calling. NOT ONCE in ANY blog did I EVER hear censored some up with am original thought or a plan that would help us out of the mess we're in. All the liberals know how to do is BLAME and NAME CALL. Just watch your TV news. It happens every day.

Bazooka there are places all over this earth where there is unfinished business. I'm thinking before long we will be back in force in Korea to finish up that mess that to this day is still going on. I agree that Bush W was cleaning up for his dad. Right or wrong it got done and it was done with support from congress. I persoanlly feel that if we're going to commit our sons and daughters to war then we need to have the WIN IT ALL mentality. We need to wade into Afghanistan with both fist swinging and let what's left of the Taliban have it full force. We need to tell Pakistan to get to helping or get out of the way. We need to start at one end of that mountain range and bomb it flat to the other end. When all is said and done and we get our boys and girls home then as they leave the military we ask them to work a couple years on the borders as civilian advisors to the Border Patrol. Use what they learned in war to COMBAT what is going on down south. It's not that much different really is it? An armed force murdering and pillaging, smuggling. Sounds alot like aAfghanistan right now.

We still need to get the bums off welfare. It's not a lifestyle, it's a hand UP. Put them to work doing the things that need to get done. Mowing all that grass in the parks in DC would be a good start. Repair our nations highways that were built by men working under the Civilian Conservation Corps, Fixing government buildings. Maintaining our national parks and such. Wanna pump money into the economy? Don't give it to banks that lend it back and forth between themselves or give it to their CEO's ofr those lavish trips. Give it to ME and BAZOOKA and TWILCOX and OM and Ken and Kim. Give us a few extra bucks to spread around. Before long you will see things pick up. Fix the housing market be deflating over priced homes. Give young people just starting out a chance to make it. Very few people in their 20's can afford $150,000 for a house but that's what they are going for around here. Give those facing forclosure a chance to refinance at a better interest rate against the REAL value of their homes. Let them start fresh and give them HOPE. Isn't that waht Obamassiah is all about...HOPE. I haven't had any for a couple months now. Will a few of the banks fold over this..probably..too bad...like lawyers there's too many of them anyways. To hell with GM and Chrysler. Look at history and see how many car manufacturers there were 50 years ago. DeSoto, Hudson, all gone. WHy..they couldn't keep up. Look at Toyota and Honda. Japanese in name only. Most of their cars are more American than GM anyways. And on that note, I don't want the governemnt backing up ANY warranties when these car makers fold. Where is the money coming from? Who will do the work. Charge foreign nations high tariffs to purchase things in the United States. We can't even own land in Mexico but we sell our very souls to China DAILY. Put comapnies that export things to here on even fotting with American manufacturers. If they charge us $20 per item when we send it there, they get charged the same when their stuff gets here. Fair is fair.

Maybe I'm all wrong. Maybe my ideals are all wrong. Maybe I AM an atrophied mutant(?) isn't that an oxymoron? But I feel that unless we make changes that benefit US we are truly screwed. Just look at what they are trying to do to the Freedom Tower. a name change just so we won't **** off foreign countries like China when they want to rent 3 floors of the building. WHO CARES, it was our country attacked we have the right to call it anything we want and they can **** well like it or they can stay OUT.

WOW...quite the soapbox there. And I bet censored can't stay away like he promised. Too much for him, he may explode...lol. Night all

Coming back to the original topic, it boils down to a rather reasonable concept. The fact that we trust market forces over government (discretionary) actions. any government (good or bad) will necessary have errors in judgment. A good decision today may not be a good decision tomorrow. That is the quandary that faces us all.

you do know that appearing to be so radical does not help your credibility. Facts and historical data help your cause alot more than this over-the-top gossip-worthy rhetoric.

For example, the Reagan admin. put the nation into debt like no other. In terms of percentage (before versus after), him and his advisers started the current trend of borrowing. there was some sound logic behind it but lack of foresight made it worse.

McCain would have faced the same issue. The grave was dug already. He would have done things differently of course. There is no saying that he would not have pushed a stimulus plan that, in my opinion is flawed. Shortly stated, it has the wrong focus. We need to not focus on corporations and the top of the food chain but rather the bottom. Without food, water, shelter, energy, education and those who provide it the rest is meaningless. If we reward those who can provide those services, then we lay the proper groundwork.

Lets go back to grade school. Was being the bully your thing? Can you handle just being yourself and not needing to be feared by others? You can lie to yourself but no country on earth would take us on now in a full scale war. Now if you can give concrete data that says otherwise I will listen. No gossip, no rhetoric, only sound data.

The Berlin Wall did not come down because big bad America told them to. I know a native German and can speak German myself so put that fib away for someone else.

Clinton, he had some good moments and some not so. The economy did well but he inherited some of that success from the first Bush. I dont care about party lines. I just like to try to let others see that there is more than one side to every story.

Thats fine. I just view bullies as insecure idiots. Those who need to demonstrate their violent tendencies generally have nothing else to offer anyone. I would like to be known for helping my family and my community through smarts and clear logic. Flexing my muscle just means that I am angry and cant think of a better way to express an idea.

Berlin, I am not the final authority but the Soviet influence was virtually nonexistent by that time. Watch a movie called, the lives of others, and you will see. It is not completely factual but I know native Germans and they view it as highly accurate.

If the world boiled down to all out anarchy, I could survive. I lived on the streets once and made the adjustments that I needed to survive. I did not go to a mission, call home and ask for someone to bail me out. I just toughed it out until the right opportunity came out.

We need folks like you to know that we are not completely off our rocker. It takes all types to make the world go around.

I will say this. Obama spending so much time, money, etc. on foreign policy could be better spent here. Regardless of how well or inept his skill at foreign policy is, the point is that the issues at home dont stop and take a rain check. I dont care what country he is talking to or what he is doing over there. I just feel that he could be using that time for better purposes.

I know that there are many layers to this but looking at the Census and 14.9% of all workers are employed by the gov. in Idaho. That seems a bit high.

I dont know about ACORN but it would seem that society cant deal with being poor or just simply not having all of its demands met. Some will be poor and some will not. Having government always make their life better does not send the right message. We could belabour this point but I feel that we both agree that redistributing the wealth (or debt as it may be) does not work in the long run.

He does have his enlightened moments doesn't he Bazooka. I still feel there is hope. If we can get hime to listen to Hannity maybe there will be hope.

If we give everybody a free pass, they will eventually feel that the government is their own personal insurance policy. Floods, earthquakes, etc. are a different story. My biggest complaint is with people who were making $45000 a year in banking or real estate or whatever. Now the boom is over but they still want to maintain that lifestyle. Life happens. They need to realize that stimulus plans, bailouts, etc. are not the answer. They need to adjust to the new situation and make due. If they have to take a job in some other field, then do it. I do fault most liberals who say that we need to pump money into the economy. That sounds grand but they were overextended before this recent downturn. And now they want the Gov. and society as a whole to remedy their risky ways. I dont agree and so maybe later on I can have my voice in changing this.

I just read about a bill that allows one to sue the federal government for at least $75,000 up to 1.5 million for climate change. I am an environmentalist but a quick scan of this screams BS. If you know more, let me know.

I misread but it had to do with this new climate change bill being sponsored by Senator Waxman from California. It has some support and hopefully it does not pass. The part that I misread was that the Feds could sue the individual states for not meeting these new guidelines. I could go on for days about this one but I will spare everyone else.

I wont argue the legitimacy of income tax but I will say that tax law is too complicated. Its a relatively simple concept and so simplifying it would benefit everyone. The indecision that some average Americans face because of all the bizaare ins and outs is unnecessary.

The reason that I hope that the above mentioned bill does not pass is that it wants this mass cleanup done in relatively little time. This spike in production costs is going to cost people their jobs and other assets. Slowing it down and adjusting for the economic climate would accomplish their goal without undue heartache.

On a less serious note, the accounting profession is probably trying to figure out who us two are so that we dont put them out of business. Our secret motive to get them out of the office and on to doing something other than crunching numbers and peanuts for that matter. I took accounting classes and really it is just amazing how they twist the numbers. Joking aside, the IRS has a legit purpose but like anything else if you make it complicated, undesirable things slip through the cracks. Average americans dont have the time to sift through all the confusing and often misleading tax lit. I am not the final answer by no means but I would propose boiling it down to just a few simple rules. I realize that publishers of these massive books would cry foul but who knows we could line many birdcages with this stuff.

Taxation has its purpose. No matter the civilized country, the public demands certain services that cant be funded on a commercial basis. Military, major public works (dams, interstate highways,etc), preservation of land. If this were left to the business world, it would either be unprofitable or in shambles quickly. How would you charge people for road use on a commercial basis? Studies have shown that when major public works project are funded by the business world and carried out by them, they are not used because people have to pay marginal oost. I wont go into the whole controversy about marginal cost but I daresay that we would revert to the pre-industrial times if that was the case.

I would be behind the IRS if they kept it simple and did not push their boundaries. Some taxation is acceptable and fair. The public will always demand public services which is just part of life. One can make this tax thing very complicated but it really boils down to accountability. The high taxes would not be needed if the recipients could be realistic in their use of that money. This is not just our friends on Capitol Hill but the many other recipients could also use a reality check. Overall, Americans need to shift fundamentally. From thinking that no matter the situation, the government and or the public is going to bail me out if I cry long enough to making tough decisions. Maybe they have to be poor and work their tails off. What is so bad about that? People have sacrificed and worked hard many generations before them. They were fine individuals for the most part so why not try it out.

Opponents of the Flat tax say that it does not cover all the bases. My rebuttal is, then make your needs adapt to the revenue stream. I dont cry to my boss because I cant afford a new car when the one that i have suits my needs just fine. I realize not everyone is the same but adapt to the situation and make the best of it.

About all these committees and endless research. Some are legit but it would be a worthwhile experiment to see if they could manage on less funds and having to be more creative in their approach. Necessity is the mother of invention. If we quit borrowing till the cows and everything else came home, maybe that would help the financial system smooth out over time.

I would say that as far as this blog has shown we are both fiscal conservatives. I dont know about you but i have been poor. I grew up in a trailer with four other siblings. Taking welfare would have been a slap in the face for my folks. I have never went down that road either. To connect the dots, I feel that some people have never had to scrape by and take pride in the simple things. They feel that because they are not living the upper middle class life depicted on TV that they have failed and so need a justified way to make that happen. Lobbying for this and that is a start. Overall, it shows itself when society has government fill in the empty spaces that they have not done for themself. Sorry about the somewhat unrelated reply.

To get back on topic about AIG. I support a bailout but not quite the way that this admin. and the other participants are handling it. I wont go into the whole economics because I dont want to put anybody to sleep (Well... that may not be such a bad idea).

Anyways, a more careful thought out approach would have yielded a better solution. It seems from the outside that they rushed into this thinking that they had to satisfy everyone right now. Well anyone with an IQ over 40 knows that in no situation can you satisfy everyone. Yes, taking some extra time would have netted some criticism but for a better solution I could deal with it.