We are better than that

Posted Tuesday, December 23, 2014, at 1:49 PM
Comments
View 31 comments
Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. Please note that those who post comments on this website may do so using a screen name, which may or may not reflect a website user's actual name. Readers should be careful not to assign comments to real people who may have names similar to screen names. Refrain from obscenity in your comments, and to keep discussions civil, don't say anything in a way your grandmother would be ashamed to read.
  • Kelly, repeating "we are better than that" over and over doesn't make it so. We apparently are not better than that, and the whole world knows it.

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Wed, Dec 17, 2014, at 10:15 AM
  • We're glad to be back in town for a few days to find this little gem from our local Republicans;

    * Torture IS wrong, unless it prevents another 911. *

    Following the whole "we're better than that" mantra from the conservative side of the house;

    # Discrimination is wrong unless the right person didn't get the job?

    # Hungry citizens is wrong unless my tax $ are used to feed those with hunger?

    # No Health Care is wrong unless my tax $ are used to cure the sickly and broken?

    # War is wrong unless the people dying are of a different religion than we are from?

    # Shooting a person is wrong unless it's a cop and the guys is walking and talking in a manner that you don't like?

    We are better than that but some groups refuse to put away those old bitter beliefs.

    The research is sitting right on this page. You just need to read to discover who is better and who is bitter.

    -- Posted by sara-connor on Wed, Dec 17, 2014, at 11:56 AM
  • WE talk about stereotyping and it goes in one ear and out the other ...The race business is and exscuse to loot and riot????? just AS BEING BLACK IS AND EXSCUSE TO GET SHOT AND KILLED.....YOU have got to be kidding me ?????? reality is your not kidding !!!!!!!!who said you were with the people who did what ever.......there we are, assumptions.....does it ever stop????

    seems TO ME WE FOUND QUITE A FEW PEOPLE AT GITMO WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE. WE ALSO TORTURED QUITE A FEW WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TALIBAN OR AL QUIDA.There is no justification for torture and we tried and hanged a lot of people for those actions or have we forgotten?? We cant hold people to a standard we don't adhere to ourselfes that is a simple concept.YES we lost 3,000.HOW many soldiers based on a lie?OUR need for revenge should be satisfied by now.Am I still angry yes you bet.I am angry that in our arrogance we ignored the intelligence and the warnings.Can I blame that on someone and take revenge?.....

    -- Posted by lamont on Wed, Dec 17, 2014, at 2:20 PM
  • I agree that a lot of things need to be fixed but I don't think that Kelly's blog did more than scratch the service of the problem of racism.

    There is racism, which is bad, and then there is white privilege which may be more insidiously bad. I don't see Kelly clamoring to work on that problem at all.

    -- Posted by Soc7 on Wed, Dec 17, 2014, at 2:32 PM
  • AUDI.......you are right .there was and article about 2 weeks ago on the same subject it was I think in the huffington post.I thought it kinda right on the spot when I read your blog.Most don't want to hear about white privilege they feel entitled to it.You cant even get them to acknowledge it,why?? BECAUSE THEY LIVE IT AND DONT KNOW ANY BETTER......Anyhow thanks for mentioning it.........WELCOME TO THE BLOG

    -- Posted by lamont on Wed, Dec 17, 2014, at 3:25 PM
  • Mike....I cant change your anger but right now so am I. BLACKS DONT NEED AND EXSCUSE TO RIOT AND LOOT......all of us dont riot or loot and you don't get what is happening to us.No matter how much it is exsplained you don't get it with it staring you in the face.We are singled out for different treatment,and it aint good.

    White privilege has to do with disparity in sentencing,the fact that whites don't get prosecuted as often,that they don't get executed at the same rate and age,that they get paid more an don't qualify,they don't get incindary questions asked of them,nor insulting ones,there assumed to be ok as I am assumed to be a criminal.I COULD GO ON BUT YOU WOULDNT GET IT.

    I don't need to rant at you it's not about you it is about a societal problem that has been going on far to long with the consent of the people tasked with ensuring that it doesn't happen.Problem is my life is at risk based on the color of my skin,not my uniform and has been for years.When we try to tell people about it they think we are paranoid or exagerating.The stress of living that daily is what gives us such a high rate of high blood pressure.It kills us early.

    THERE IS A LOT YOU DONT GET SO I NEED TO CALL IT A DAY.........LATER

    -- Posted by lamont on Wed, Dec 17, 2014, at 7:22 PM
  • A white person would have NOT likely been shot several times for resisting arrest, for assaulting a cop, IF THAT IS EVEN INDEED WHAT HAPPENED. It has not been proven.

    White privilege plays into this case and is where we need to improve so that the rules are the same for everyone, and a cop has to exert control over his or her behavior, despite the race of the person that he or she is dealing with.

    I don't care if the majority of Americans think that torture is okay. I don't think that it is, and I'd be willing to bet if the Americans in the poll had more information they would be saying something different.

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Wed, Dec 17, 2014, at 10:32 PM
  • Sam is correct, in that White Privilege is a factor in why a person is more likely to be killed by a policeman if he is black than if he is white. The police just make more allowances for white people. That is just plain wrong.

    Percentages don't make a wrong a right. 51% of Americans in the poll saying that sometimes torture is justified, doesn't make torture right. I don't check the polls when I get up in the morning to see what my opinion is that day.

    Americans need to do a lot better. Kelly is only partially right. We aren't better but we should be working on getting better.

    -- Posted by Soc7 on Thu, Dec 18, 2014, at 8:31 AM
  • I hate to quote Kelly but in his blog he said:

    "As a nation, we are better than those few who still use race to stereotype fellow Americans and blame the victims, apparently arguing that inconsequential actions or minor crimes justify the death penalty."

    Talking about "what race commits the most crime" is an example of encouraging white privilege. The statistic. BTW, isn't really valid because other related statistics aren't taken into account. For example, statistically people from poor neighborhoods where people are unemployed have more crime. I recently read a book about a poor Irish-American family in a poor Irish-American neighborhood. Crime was high.

    The below are examples of privilege from the "White Privilege Conference".

    Examples of Privilege

    "Being able to...

    *assume that most of the people you or your children study in history classes and textbooks will be of the same race, gender, or sexual orientation as you are

    *assume that your failures will not be attributed to your race, or your gender

    *assume that if you work hard and follow the rules, you will get what you deserve

    *success without other people being surprised; and without being held to a higher standard

    *go out in public without fear of being harassed or constantly worried about physical safety

    *not have to think about your race, or your gender, or your sexual orientation, or disabilities, on a daily basis..."

    http://www.whiteprivilegeconference.com/white_privilege.html

    When we try to get better, we need to drop the stereotyping by race through misleading statistics.

    White privilege as a concept may have been introduced in 1987 when Peggy McIntosh's lecture/article "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack".

    It helped to explain the advantages that white people in the United States have despite the passage of the Civil Rights bill in the 1960's.

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Thu, Dec 18, 2014, at 8:01 PM
  • The "now what" question at the end of that article is that Americans should work to do better. They should recognize as the author does that he is "a straight, white man, at times that gives me unfair advantages."

    In the case of the police and black people, the reality is that is the difference between life and death since the police are more likely to kill a black person. It's been 50 years since the passage of the Civil Rights Act. It's time that Americans took it up a notch.

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Thu, Dec 18, 2014, at 9:11 PM
  • I for one don't have a problem with those who ressist arrest being treated as they have.I have a problem with the arrested being killed in hand cuffs,potocals not being followed in making arrests,false arrests, false tickets etc. That is were the anger lies in the community.Yes it happens to everyone but there seems to be a perpensity for it to happen to minority's at a higher rate,and more deadly.Your social economic staus has more to do with crime than your skin color.That speaks to assumption in the article.

    GOOD ARTICLE ENJOYED THE READ.As someone who has lived both theory's the so what question has stymied us all and there is no set answer.We can only act on what is happening right now.I might add that the media has not done any favors to either side of this issue. It is like who do we pick on today?You would think that the only poor people in this country are minority's thanks to the media, how so not true.Selective reporting has done immeasurable damage to our society there is no denying that.

    -- Posted by lamont on Fri, Dec 19, 2014, at 11:19 AM
  • I think that the protestors and the media attention has also helped. Awareness that America has a racial issue has moved from 1% of Americans in November to now 13%. Our race problem is now seen as a top problem along with the economy according to Gallup.

    That's a start, but at some point it needs to be turned into legal action and better education. Just the fact that some of us are aware of the issue of white privilege is progress. We need to keep spreading the word on this and conducting research on this to better understand how to make progress on the problem.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/19/americans-race-relations-gallup_n_63544...

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Fri, Dec 19, 2014, at 11:57 AM
  • I believe that this is on topic. Kelly mentions, the killing of black people by police, the protests that sometimes turned to property damage, and the torture of prisoners by the CIA and says we are better than that.

    I've mentioned that we apparently aren't better than that but need to improve. What about the known wrong-doing by the police and county officials in Ferguson. The prosecutor in Ferguson put witnesses in front of the grand jury, such as witness 40, that he knew was lying. That is against the law. A lawyer, including a prosecutor, is not supposed to allow anyone to testify that they know is going to lie. That is called suborning perjury. Why isn't the prosecutor showing up in front of a grand jury?

    See 18 U.S. Code 1622 - Subornation of perjury

    "Whoever procures another to commit any perjury is guilty of subornation of perjury, and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Fri, Dec 19, 2014, at 6:50 PM
  • Sam, the Ferguson prosecutor seems to be pretty sure that he isn't going to be in trouble for his role in getting Wilson off. As a matter of fact, he isn't even going to charge Witness 40 with lying, I suppose because he aided and abetted her. They must have a good ole boy network really protecting him. The governor needs to step in and reestablish the rule of law in Ferguson.

    The quote below if from an interview with McCulloch where he admitted what he had done and that he wasn't going to charge anyone with perjury.

    "Milhaven later asked McCulloch if he was thinking about charging anyone with perjury over their false testimony. This was an obvious reference to "Witness 40,' who The Smoking Gun has identified as Sandra McElroy, a St. Louis woman who has a history of racism and making false statements. While McCulloch said he knew that some witnesses "absolutely lied under oath" and one particular witness "clearly wasn't present when" the shooting happened, he would forego charging any witnesses with perjury."

    http://www.politicususa.com/2014/12/19/prosecutor-admits-witnesses-absolutely-li...

    -- Posted by Soc7 on Sat, Dec 20, 2014, at 5:26 PM
  • YES...... THEY WERE SHOT SITTING IN THERE SQUAD CAR,THE PERPETRATOR COMMITTED SUICIDE,BEFORE DOING THAT HE TRIED TO KILL HIS GIRLFRIEND ALSO.

    Protest does not incite this idiot to do what he did.I am not sure who you are accusing of encouraging this.I DONT KNOW ANYONE WHO WANTED SOMEONE TO KILL SOMEONE ELSE. NOW this misguided adventure creates and atmosphere that has went from bad to worse,it also will change nothing.It has come to this through time and miscarriages of justice all over the nation.I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE AS A NATION SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THAT .

    THIS LIKE SO MANY OTHERS IS SENSELESS

    -- Posted by lamont on Sun, Dec 21, 2014, at 2:16 AM
  • Brenda, I see your warning and I will try to stay on topic here.

    There is a cause and effect in play. The cause: a system that is making big errors:

    1. Police overuse of extreme force particularly in the case of black people.

    2. The rule of law not applying to the Ferguson prosecutor and the police charged with killing two black people.

    3, The CIA was able to break the law, lie to Congress, in order to torture prisoners. There are no plans to charge anyone involved with this, with a crime.

    The effect is this.

    1. Protests all over the country over the loss of black lives Some of the protests involved property damage. -- No positive action has been seen on this yet although there are Federal investigations pending.

    2. Anger amongst Americans and our allies for America being involved in torture. -- No positive action has been seen on this yet, except America says that it won't torture again, however their are dissenters on this.

    In New York, unfortunately a deranged black man killed his girl friend and then killed two policemen. Had he not killed himself, he would have been tried and convicted of all three murders. The system is not broken here, and this shouldn't be used as an excuse to not fix the system.

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Sun, Dec 21, 2014, at 9:09 AM
  • I have a correction. The girl fried was shot but she survived.

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Sun, Dec 21, 2014, at 9:15 AM
  • WETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT BROWN AND GARNER BECAME the CATALYST for PROTEST.The protest should BE ABOUT POLICE BRUTALITY.Those two people were not innocents how ever the question has arisen as to wether there deaths were necessary.While the spotlight has been on these two,four other shootings have occurred, which again brought police professionalism into question.The point here is WHY does this loss of life SEEM to be pervasive within minority communities and specifically to men of color?That is the question.A lot of the people who have been brutalized have no criminal history.What I HEAR BEING SAID IS, IT IS OK. WE SHOULD ACCEPT BEING BRUTILIZED AND OR KILLED BECAUSE YOU REPRESENT A THREAT IN SOMEONES MIND,NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE.

    We are sopposed to be better than that.We are not sopposed to be predisposed to brutilzing people on sight.I DO NOT SUPPORT LOOTING OR RIOTING. I DO SUPPORT PEACFULL PROTEST.WE SHOULD REMEMBER THAT PROVOCATION GOES BOTH WAYS.The protestors have a responsibility and so do the police.Everything that comes out of a policemans mouth is not always the truth,that is being proven right here in little ol Idaho.

    -- Posted by lamont on Sun, Dec 21, 2014, at 4:20 PM
  • I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO BUT THERE IS A LOT OF ANGER IN N.Y.From joe blow citizen to the mayors office people are not saying goody..everyone is laying wreaths and lighting candles.Some of the people doing that are PROTESTORS.That is a public exspression of pain.In N.Y. IT TOUCHES THEM ALL,WHITE BLACK,GREEN OR YELLOW ALL NEIGHBORHOODS.

    I think we need to remember that the police go on retaliation rampages before we blame one side.Both sides have there faults.One idiot on either side creates a mess for US to clean up.The problem is the community and the police have heard to many times" it was and accident" and left it at that.That MAY satisfy the politics, it doesn't satisfy the family or the community.Believe it or not it doesn't satisfy the police either.

    Nobody has a problem shooting a person with and axe and Nobody that I know of has said they do. You speak of police intensity, how come you don't understand that the COMMUNITY see,s the brutalization the same way the POLICE see the shooting and it gets intense also.

    Responsible people have spoken out and said in no uncertain terms it was WRONG.Who do you exspect them to protest???? THE SHOOTERS FAMILY???JUST WHAT DO YOU CALL AGITATORS????

    -- Posted by lamont on Sun, Dec 21, 2014, at 9:59 PM
  • THERE YOU GO AGAIN.....RAPPING EVERYONE IN THE SAME CLOTH.,,CALL YOUR COUSIN AL......DEBLASSO SHOULD BE CANNED.....ETC.

    Fox it could be said, only shows what makes a liberal look bad. I say it only shows the bad and not the good.The fact that just as many if not more people have said it WAS wrong and as I SAID ARE LIGHTING CANDLES, SAYING PRAYERS ETC.

    Is the only way to see something, the conservative way???? I could say what the community's saying 2 cops, how many of us die at there hand every day or so?? The beat downs that don't make the news,the ACCIDENTAL shooting in the hall way. Young man comes out of his bachelor party goes to get in his car and is shot by police..They thought he was a drug dealer because of the car he drove.The man shot in the doorway reaching for the I.D. THEY TOLD HIM TO PRODUCE (19 times out of 62 rds)There is more that goes on than what any news network reports.You like so many have blinders on and you want those people to accept what ever the police do and it's ok.The brutalization has been going on to long it has come to a boiling point just like your gun issue.You want us to understand your stand on guns. How about some understanding on the issue of police brutality and stop classifying people who don't agree as thugs and criminals.DID it ever dawn on you that people might consider the head of the NRA a THUG AND AN AGITATOR.But nobody is calling him that at least not on FOX.

    LAST the police in N.Y. make a good salary far more than you or I ever made.MAybe DEBLAZZIO OUGHT TO PULL A SCOTT WALKER AND GO AFTER THE UNION??? WOULD THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY?????

    THE POLICE HAVE PULLED SOME ASSASINATIONS OF THERE OWN.......THERE HANDS ARE NOT CLEAN.....THEY ARE NOT INNOCENT.......THEY JUST HAVE THE WEAPONS AND THEY USE THEM TO INTIMADATE PLAIN EVERYDAY FOLKS.....THAT IS THE WAY THE COMMUNITY FEELS.....YOU and I don't live there so we are on the outside looking in.We only see what the news lets us see,and we already know the hews is tainted.!!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by lamont on Mon, Dec 22, 2014, at 11:18 AM
  • It looks to me, like someone is making excuses, for law enforcement not doing their job and a prosecutor not doing his job.

    If any police have their feelings hurt and don't want to patrol the neighborhoods or respond to 911 calls, they are welcome to also not get paid. Problem solved.

    I took a look at policeone.com and the police commenting had a very poor attitude. Most pretty much sounded like extreme right wing crazy people. One said "This is a good time for all law enforcement officers to take a week off all at the same time, give the country time to re-boot. When we come back we can protect whom ever is left." I picked this one because the language was clean but the attitude is extremely poor considering the policeman is paid to do his duty.

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Mon, Dec 22, 2014, at 11:38 AM
  • Here's an older case from 1983 you might find interesting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Michael_Stewart

    -- Posted by MsMarylin on Mon, Dec 22, 2014, at 12:18 PM
  • I want neither. I'm responding to Mike's comment about the police not doing their job in the neighborhood and I'm fine with them not doing their job and not getting paid.

    I'm sure that good police officers will continue to do their job and get paid.

    Like the topic of this blog suggests, improvement is needed. Not from all police officers but from way too many. That is a good focus, not histrionic attempts to side step the issue, such as the New York City police union is doing.

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Mon, Dec 22, 2014, at 5:10 PM
  • Good example of the 1983 case Marilyn. Over 30 years ago and nothing seems to have changed.

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Mon, Dec 22, 2014, at 8:49 PM
  • "Lizzie Borden took an axe,

    And gave her mother forty whacks,

    When she saw what she had done,

    She gave her father forty-one."

    Parenting isn't the problem. This isn't new for children that are not raised well, or despite how they are raised don't do well.

    Yes, the two+ RECENT victims of police brutality, did not immediately obey the instructions of the police, but they didn't deserve to die for it. They probably died for it because of the color of their skin. That's the problem and where we have an opportunity to improve.

    We have public servants (police) who are paid by taxpayers to do what they signed up for and for which they are paid to do. Some of them need to do better. Judging from the actions of the police union in New York City, it sounds like a lot of them have the wrong attitude to do better.

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Mon, Dec 22, 2014, at 11:58 PM
  • "it's not THEIR jobs to raise your brat kids either. It was YOURS" -- Mike Bradbury

    There is something wrong with that statement.

    1. My kid aren't brats

    2. Nobody thinks the police's job is to raise our kids.

    It is not the police's job to be the executioner for the state, and the police needs to be held accountable when they do that. The Ferguson prosecutor needs to be held accountable for letting witnesses that he knew were lying on the grand jury to testify.

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Tue, Dec 23, 2014, at 8:38 AM
  • MS M. I WAS aware of that case in bklyn and forgot it.Pratt inst is one heck oF a school requires and entrance exam.The community got angry on this one also but as you said it went nowhere.

    VERY hard to be on top of kids and work 2 jobs sometimes 3 or with overtime.Most family,s do the best they can.I GUESS WE JUST SAW THAT CORPORAL PUNISHMENT IS NOT ALLOWED,ASK THE NFL.

    ILL SAY IT AGAIN THIS NATIONAL MOVEMENT IS NOT ABOUT BROWN.The movement is about police brutality.The shame here is it took brown and garner for the police to have to face the issue.It took and assassination for people to say this has gone far enough we need to talk about this.They now need to do something about it because it is not new.IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS AND WE HAVE BEEN ALIBIENG IT FOR YEARS.

    I don't think anyone is saying the police don't have a dangerous job.I do think they are saying the OVER use of lethal force,the beating and shooting of handcuffed people WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, AND WHAT NEIGBERHOOD YOUR IN WILL NOT CHANGE THAT.It is a pointed fact that minority and poor neigberhoods do not trust the police with good reason.I don't trust the BOISE POLICE OR MTN HOME FOR GOOD REASON AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED.There are people who feel the same way I do.Some officers are highly respected and we should turn to them and find out why.They should be used as the model for the force not some person with cut off gloves and a biker attitude.When we look at how the people are perceived we have to look at how the police are perceived, with the same critical eye.We want them to do there job safely and with the same respect they want for themselves to be given there charges.They need to obey the laws they enforce and maintain the standards or get another job.When we attempt to blame the victim for the actions of a few we need to remember that is a two way street.That is the same exscuse this idiot used to assasinate these officers.For those who don't get it, those officers were not to blame for the actions of the OTHERS.No more than any suspect is to blame for thE OTHERS.EACH INCIDENT SHOULD BE TREATED ON ITS OWN MERIT and NOT SOME VENDETTA.

    -- Posted by lamont on Tue, Dec 23, 2014, at 10:13 AM
  • Well said, lamont. The link below provides statistics on the problem of police being over aggressive to the point of shooting a black suspect, and the problem of police not being held accountable when they shoot a black suspect.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/police-shootings-michael-brown-fergu...

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Tue, Dec 23, 2014, at 10:25 AM
  • ALWAYS RIGHT......At some point stats and time tell the tale.I AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU.There is a point were perception becomes reality.That is were we are at.We got here based on the number of incidents across the country in a relatively short time.I FOR ONE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE BRUTALITY, NO MATTER WHO PERPETRATES IT OR RECIEVES IT.The message for me was sent by the california state policeman,not brown or garner.That video is so defining that it is beyond words cutoff gloves and all.Brown and GARNER just brought in another facet of the problem,the appearance of disregard for the life being taken.(I can't breath)

    You can disagree, but the wall you speak of for the group that gets targeted is REAL.When you do what is asked of you or directed to do and then you get shot.What are you sopposed to think?? THE YOUNG MAN AT THE GROCERY STORE SAID....you told me to get my I.D. WHY DID YOU SHOT ME??? COP;.... I thought you were going for a gun........duh !!!!!!!!HE WAS LUCKY HE DIDNT DIE........Those kind of incidents aid in the distrust of police,and if it crosses racial lines it makes it worst.

    -- Posted by lamont on Tue, Dec 23, 2014, at 12:34 PM
  • Before you argue against the facts, always right, why not read the article from the link so that you are better informed.

    -- Posted by Sam_1776 on Tue, Dec 23, 2014, at 12:50 PM
  • Thank you for your comments. If you would like to continue the multitude of topics this has covered please take them to the political forum. The last two that had the comments removed has now been fixed so it could have a management determined stopping place with all the prior thread available for reading. This will allow all your "research" to remain in tack. This is an option we have had made available to us when a Mountain Home News blog, article or editorial are shanghaied and carried off topic. We still retain the option to remove comments that are offensive or reduced to name calling. Thank you again.

    Have a very Merry Christmas.

    -- Posted by Brenda M Fincher Publisher MHNews on Tue, Dec 23, 2014, at 1:47 PM