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Monday, September 22, 2014

Big Fatty!

Posted Monday, May 14, 2012, at 1:55 PM

(Photo)
I was just up at Paul's Market picking up some bologna, baloney, whatever you want to call it, to make my lunches for the week. As I'm in the check out I notice a very heavyset guy in front of me buying a dozen donuts and a gallon of chocolate milk. I think to myself, "does he really need to be buying that, *giggle*?" Then I noticed that he was paying for it with a foodstamp card. Then I got mad and thought to myself, "do I really need to be buying that for him?"

At this point I am fuming! I start thinking about how if he is using food stamps he more than likely doesn't have health insurance or is on govt. insurance. And how I am going to have to be paying for this fat tub of lards next heart attack. And how I better cut back on my boloney lunches just so I can do so!!

I'm all for foodstamps, we were on them as kids. They help a lot of families in need. But I think they need to do it like the WIC Program for expectant mothers. Only give them what they need.... Ya know what, I take that back. I remember having to drink that powdered milk as a kid and I sure could have went for a big glass of chocolate milk right about then. The free cheese wasn't bad though. Standing in line for it, that's a story for another blog.

I think I'll go eat my baloney sandwich now. I'm sure that'll change my mad feeling to more of a queezy disgusted feeling.


Comments
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YES YES YES.....THAT IS THE ADMINISTRATORS FAULT HOW AND WHY DID HE QUAILFY.AND HOW DOES HE STAY QUALIFIED.??? I agree 100% THAT SHOULD NOT BE.that kind of abuse can be stoped and we should demand it from the people that administer those programs.In stead the people who really need help are held hostage to some aduser like this.THAT IS NOT A RIGHT OR LEFT PROBLEM IT IS A PROBLEM PERIOD.

-- Posted by lamont on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 2:08 PM

Amen.

-- Posted by arsenal on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 3:12 PM

What's your point?...Obese people aren't permitted to be classified as needy? Obese people can't lose their jobs and drop below the sanctioned "poverty line" and thus, be eligible for assistance?

At what level do you judge people worthy of assistance?...physical fitness?...smoker?...disfigured?...age?...mental capacity?, ...etc.?

-- Posted by junkyard dog on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 5:33 PM

The economy has played a large part in the elgibilty of people for food stamps.I would think as goes the economy goes the number of people on food stamps.I know people right here in mtn home who for the first time ever are on food stamps and that is economy driven according to them.They are not the people you would normally see on food stamps.

I think my problem JYD is what he was buying,that was and issue for me.NEEDED things to subsidize yes....donuts and chocalate milk I have a problem yes.aND HIM BEING OBESE BUYING WHAT HE WAS BUYING SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE.I am trying not to be judgmental.If he is obese because of medical reasons and he could be that is one thing,but i dont think the doctor would be perscibing donuts.......

-- Posted by lamont on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 6:55 PM

Exactly Lamont ....perfectly spoken

-- Posted by jessiemiller on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 9:42 PM

JYD, Lamont stated my point. It also bothered me that I am buying crappy lunch meat to save on money but, this man is buying donuts and chocolate milk because the money doesn't matter to him since it's free.

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 10:42 PM

Yep, gotta love welfare and the abuse that goes on. Kind of like jumping into that Escalade when you do not have a job, are on food stamps, assisted housing, medicaid and ssi for some made up illness/disabilty that NEVER prevents you from doing the things you want to do. Gotta love America!

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 10:43 PM

Well Kieth, you and I agree! I have been called cold hearted and other things for advocating limits on what people can and can not buy with a SNAP card.

Buckshot, as usual you comment has ZIP to do with the topic of the blog. Same for you OM, but it's Kieth's blog. Just my opinion on your behavior.

I would also like to remind those that have forgotten, that I am 100% in favor of the LDS model for social aid. If you don't know what that model is, ask around.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, May 15, 2012, at 6:19 AM

food stamp card Mike.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, May 15, 2012, at 7:49 AM

You know, OM, I have witnessed every one of those things you listed lol. Gotta get them new rims before the bills are paid! No wonder so many people are trying to get into this country.

Glad the gun (such a dirty word) is done, Mike. I would love to go out and fire off a few with ya! I just don't think I'm going to have time. Between work, home, and trying to move these horses for Curly, I am beat! Don't count me out, though. If I can get Lacy sold for him today or tomorrow, I would love to go. I'll keep you updated and thanks for asking :)

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Tue, May 15, 2012, at 10:57 AM

When we were on foodstamps, which thank the all magical man above we are no longer on, I would always make sure to buy sweets and soda with my own money, We always used it for meat and veggies, or bread or milk or whatever was actually good for us to eat.

-- Posted by shockwave on Tue, May 15, 2012, at 1:22 PM

That makes total sense, zombie, and that's the way it should be. That's the way my wife and I do with our cash now. We buy the neccesitites (sp?) first and then if there is something left over, we buy some of them awesome Berryblast Oreo cookies!!LOL

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Tue, May 15, 2012, at 1:32 PM

Such a dilemma: Which do I choose? a. Limited Government; or, b. The Department of What You Can't Eat Police.

Every choice has an unintended consequence.

You can not regulate charity or welfare without restricting it. If you want to feed the poor, feed them...don't tell them what to eat. If you want to clothe the naked, put clothes on their backs...don't tell them what to wear. If you want to educate the ignorant, teach them...don't tell them what to think.

There are some things in life that we share unconditionally with others...charity and love come to my mind. If help, respect, empathy, and support are not in your creed, then vote that way.

-- Posted by junkyard dog on Tue, May 15, 2012, at 5:38 PM

JYD, I'm all for some of what you said. I do believe in helping people. I don't believe in helping people live beyond their means. If a person loses their job or falls on hards time, by all means, I will help that person. But, I will not help that person live like they were when they were working. I don't even live like that myself. My wife and I live like "what if something happens and one of us loses our job?" (Me being a military spouse, we never know when or if I will have a job.) So we plan accordingly.

Part of the reason that we (the country) are in the situation we are in now is because people felt they deserved to live better than what they could afford. They bought bigger houses because the banks said "OK." Fancier cars because they were "approved." Then when it came time to pay the Piper, all of a sudden it wasn't their fault. They're not the ones who gave them credit. They shouldn't have to pay up. The banks should have known they couldn't afford it.

I worked for an engineering company until this past June. My wife was a SrAirman. When we were stationed here we didn't buy a house based on my pay and hers. We bought one based only on SrA pay. Now, if I was the guy I described in my blog, I would have probably bought a house based on what I wanted and not what we should have. I hope you understand my point.

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Tue, May 15, 2012, at 11:43 PM

Keith:

you are starting from the bottom of the list. One congressman leaches off more rdollars for his/her own purposes than quite a few food-stamp recipients.

We pay for so many things that are outrageous, but what happens at the top of the food-chain is a far more serious problem than chocolate milk and donuts.

I try not to judge a person's food choices in the grocery line. I am far more bothered by the excesses that we see in our government by those who draw adequate salaries paid by out tax dollars and then go on to fatten their personal bank accounts on our dime.

Off subject, what do you think about Obama's newest campaign ploy? inserting pictures of himself with various moments of history and injecting comments about how similiar his policies are with those presidents who have gone before. Plus putting this on the WH website?

Two articles about this. USA Today and FoX News.

-- Posted by KH Gal on Wed, May 16, 2012, at 11:21 AM

I just read the story on that. It's disgusting that this President is leaching off the past Presidents. What a role model. To even associate his name with the past Presidents is a disgrace. It's funny how none of the "add-ons" mentioned the debt.

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Wed, May 16, 2012, at 12:05 PM

Yep, just another day in time of the Obama propoganda machine. I better quit talking like that, though. I may be detained for it.

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 9:11 AM

TOO BUSY SMEARING HIM FOR THE NAMM....IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.IF we are going to smear the president for what the media says or does then lets give equal time to gov ROMENEY HE HAS NOT BEEN WITHOUT FAULT OR AT LEAST HIS CAMPAIGN AND HIS SUPER PAC'S HAVNT.In othere words both campaigns have there croses to bear.OUR he said she said is bad enough are we really going to chime in on the media??? mORE POWER TO YOU.......THAT'S A HEART ATTACK WAITING TO HAPPEN.

-- Posted by lamont on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 9:36 AM

Correction Mike. Kerry's wife is wealthy. It's her money, not his. She even does her own taxes separate from his. She is an heiress.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 1:14 PM

HOW FAST DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD COME OUT OF A MAJOR RECESSION???? The setup for this recession took about 15yrs at the least.So what would be a reasonable time frame.Considering policy change,fixes put in place the implmentation of them and they start to work. THOUGHTS ON THAT ANYONE ????

-- Posted by lamont on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 1:27 PM

Having wealth seemed to work out ok for President's Washington, Kennedy, Roosevelt, and Jefferson. They seemed ok.

-- Posted by skeeter on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 1:48 PM

I think Kerry is rich, richest of all lawmakers I read somewhere, he has four trust funds. Also read he pays a lower tax rate than Romney. This isn't the first rich wife he has had either from what I remember.

-- Posted by skeeter on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 1:56 PM

Nope skeeter, his wife's maiden name was Heinz, like the catsup. Heinz foods.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 2:00 PM

Nope what Roy?

-- Posted by skeeter on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 2:03 PM

Kerry isn't all that rich. Don't know about his tax rate. The tax code as written absolutely SUCKS. Too high for some, too low for others, full of loopholes, you name it. Income should be income. PERIOD! Personal exemptions plus standard deduction, tax the balance! One rate! Corporate tax, revenue minus cost of materials, minus labor (wages paid) equals profit. 20% flat. No special write off, exemptions, etc.

One short form for personal, one short form for corporate.

Sounds absolutely fair to me.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 2:22 PM

Sure looks like I proposed lowering taxes. Or is it removing loopholes that you object to? Special tax rates for those that can afford to buy them?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 10:56 AM

the decision to outsource comes down to more than just taxation. That is an ingredient but there are piles of evidence that show that inflated wages are the primary culprit.

About food stamps, if we are to objectively evaluate the effectiveness then we need to know a few things. One, is there a correlation between shrinking number of recipients and lower unemployment. Two, is the social benefit greater than the cost. There are ways to measure that. Ways that leave emotion, rhetoric, and subjective attitudes behind. However, humanity tends to not to like things like that. I wonder why?

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 1:02 PM

Because emotion trumps logic!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 1:07 PM

TWILL........INFLATED WAGES......I understand where that might come from however how about inflated cost of goods to the american consumer.I CAN THINK OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN OUR COST HERE WITH id power they have gotten 46% in raises thru last year.I have not gotten a raise and wages do not keep up with those kind of things.So at what point do I have to make a choice between,heating my home,food,water,car,insurance etc....So although I am on a fixed income I dont see how we can reconcile the to.When are we going to stop seeing raises that put americans on there knees for the sake of increased profit,the stock holders demand dividends rather than sound policy.SOONER THAN LATTER PEOPLE STOP BUYING THE NICE TO HAVE.THEY CANT AFFORD IT.What say you about reducing the cost of basics.

There are ways to measure food stamps YES.IT HAS BEEN DONE TIME AND TIME AGAIN.I for one am not sure about the social benefits for me it's a double edge sword.WELFARE HAS BEEN USED AS A VERY DIVISIVE SUBJECT,ESPECIALLY RACIALLY.Based on current media exsposure you would think everyone on welfare was a minority and that is not true.70% of recipients are white.YES I have problems with welfare,on more than one level.In my opinion it makes people dependent and the people who control it paternalistic,the military does the same thing.......HUMANITY has never liked reality........smile

-- Posted by lamont on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 4:51 PM

Well Buckshot, your copy and paste is just someones opinion on a blog page from 3 years ago.

I guess Cisco isn't as smart as Apple who enjoys a 9.8% tax rate, or AT&T who enjoys a negative tax rate, and many other companies that pay far less than the often hollered about 35%.

I still think my idea on taxes hold water.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 5:36 PM

Never said a word about the other link. Quit putting words in my mouth.

Your first copy and paste job is just another opinion, no more, no less. Admit it!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 6:14 PM

Buckshot, the Germans, Japanese and the Koreans don't seem to have a problem with taxes and regulations since they have and are building manufacturing plants here. Your argument about Cisco just doesn't hold up!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 6:54 PM

Buckshot, I never said a word about wages! Quit putting words in my mouth!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 7:22 PM

Twil, now you can see how Buckshot operates.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 7:38 PM

As much as I dislike many aspects of the current administration, I will derive great joy in hearing your pronouncements if he is re-elected. I can just imagine all the accusations, excuses, ad nauseum.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 8:42 PM

Lamont,

Wages are the not sole measure of a worker's actual worth. In cut-and-dry, cold economic terms, they are measured on what their presence brings to the bottom line. It is logical to think that a worker's absence will bring about a loss in output. Assuming that they are not replaced instantly by someone of equal skill. The additional output that their presence brings multiplied by the market price of that output is called value marginal product. Divide that by eight hours and one should arrive at the wage. I will come back to this in just a bit.

When we talk about outsourcing, we are usually talking about manufacturing and low-skill jobs. In the manufacturing sector, Americans are not that productive. Using the criteria given above they are overpaid by a significant margin. Add on to that, the very generous pensions and benefits and the payroll taxes. It is no wonder that labor is the number one cost for these companies. Again, labor not taxes is the number one expense.

I worked for a bread factory for 2.5 years until they shut down. The jobs were mostly low-skill. They could have fetched someone off the street and that person could have been performing optimally in less than a day. There was nothing special about the workers. They did jobs that any other healthy adult could have done just as well. However, we were paid quite well. $15.96 per hour, plus considerable overtime, benefits, and some other perks. The deciding factor in closing the doors and shifting the production to Las Vegas and Ogden was not taxes. It was high cost of labor and outdated machines. The union was given the choice to take a pay cut down to $12.00 and keep the jobs for a year or more. They gave them the finger and three months later, that was the end. Most of the workers relocated and took even larger pay cuts and were demoted.

Idaho Power is a strange beast. I briefly dealt with them a few years ago and it is a bureaucratic mess.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Tue, May 22, 2012, at 11:40 AM

I anticipate the responses that will come from this ,especially from one specific individual. This certain person is going to rush to judgment and push out a tirade about how I am just another college educated, silver spoon, tax-and-spend liberal. That would please him greatly if it was true. It would give him a reason to vent and a convenient target. What is missing here is that this certain someone knows virtually nothing about my stance on things. This rush to conveniently fill in the blanks is what is wrong with America. Not knowing something does not stop most. Glenn Beck is the best example.

On the topic of taxation, I only have two strong opinions. One, it is way too complicated. From the personal or business side of it, they make it so complex. It really does not need to be that way. Second, the taxes that we really should be railing about are not the more predictable ones such as the gas tax or income tax. It is the more insidious ones lurking in the background that cause the greatest pain. Payroll, inheritance, estate, capital gains, etc. Those are the ones that lurk in the shadows and come back to bite the hardest. It comes down to adjustments. Most people know the income tax structure quite well and adjust accordingly. The others are not so well known and have layers of complexity built in. Complexity brings about cost. Unnecessary cost, in my humble opinion.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Tue, May 22, 2012, at 12:49 PM

I have often stated that traditional labor unions have outlived their usefulness, but I do support some type of collective bargaining. 35+ years in Silicon Valley taught me that when unemployment was low, wages went up due to competition for people with skills in the industry. When unemployment went up, while the number of workers went down, so did wages, and at the end of the day, the employers profit margins increased. Of course the employee's expenses didn't go down, so their standard of living took a hit.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, May 22, 2012, at 7:04 PM

THANKS ....TWILL.....I do understand the labor cost having owned several businesses,what i am trying to reconcile is how the cost of everything goes up but wages dont,leaving people,you and me in a lerch.I do have some heartburn about CEO's salaries.18% raise for workers in the last 30yrs and 240% for CEO"S I do have a problem with that.

We should have to look at what is going on with that.YES I have problems with Taxes and understand how you deal with it.MOST PEOPLE FILE SHORT FORMS BECAUSE THEY WANT MONEY FAST AND USE THE IRS AS A SHORT TERM BANK THEY USUALLY CHEAT THEMSELFES.BUT as it stands now a regular person will never be able to live a comfortable life free of dept.Prices need to go down and if they dont people will only be able to buy but so much and the system will callapse.......my opinion.We are pricing ourselves into failure.ID POWER LIKE ANY BEAUROCRACY IS SELFPERPETUATING.

-- Posted by lamont on Tue, May 22, 2012, at 9:35 PM

Lamont,

I see your concern and acknowledge it. However, the prices of necessary goods are not factored into wages. Wages are not set with the cost of living in mind.

My ad hoc theory about why CEO's and such are being paid so well is that society avoids taking responsibility. Instead of having many people that are responsible and liable for losses, we pawn it off on one individual. This gives the employees and stockholders a nice, convenient target. Instead of having to acknowledge that they were less than perfect, they simply throw the blame all onto the CEO. The risk premium that comes from that dynamic drives up compensation for CEO's. That is my take on it, what about you?

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, May 23, 2012, at 8:43 AM

twil, as an economist, any thoughts on the information in the following link, especially given their general political leanings?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-happie...

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Wed, May 23, 2012, at 9:38 PM

Roy,

This would tell you that what the average person really wants from an economy is employment, access to health care, access to basic necessities, and leisure time. Those nations on the list all seem to supply those even though they have heavy government involvement in their lives.

Those nations all have significantly different cultural and historical backgrounds than that of the U.S. The inevitable conclusion is that the U.S. should just evolve to that point and move on. However, those nations and the U.S. are apples and oranges. Just because it works there does not mean it would work here.

From the pure economics viewpoint, if the marginal benefits (their happiness) are equal to the marginal costs of achieving that then they should continue. If benefits were exceeded by costs, that would manifest itself in the form of increased debt, lowered surplus, or overall decrease in welfare. It appears, on the surface, that this is not the case.

What do you think?

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Thu, May 24, 2012, at 4:26 PM

Twil,

The countries listed seem to have healthy vibrant economies with a low to non-existent deficit vs GDP. I think the difference between them and some other countries that are failing, ie, Greece, is that they understand that they have to pay for their quality of life. Translated, they have to pay taxes.

In the case of Australia, they have taken control of their natural resources, and those that want to mine and export those resources pay a hefty tax for that privilege.

I think the key is getting past survival of the fittest, and focusing on the survival of the whole. Continuing to have 20% of the wage earners earn 5% of total wages paid is a recipe for disaster, socially, politically, and economically. Something will have to give.

Pure socialism will never work, that's a given.

Unbridled, unregulated free market capitalism isn't working for the whole, just the few. The answer sits somewhere in the middle.

As a country, we have become so large and so diverse, that the 2 party system no longer functions with the best interest of the whole as it's prime directive. At this point I feel that the parliamentary system would serve us better.

As it stands today, we have X dollars in the pot. How do we best spend those dollars? Being the worlds policeman? That has a negative ROI. Educating our young? That would seem to have a positive ROI. Providing decent medical care for our citizens, as opposed to only dealing with catastrophic illness has a positive ROI. Investment in infrastructure has a positive ROI.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, May 24, 2012, at 8:20 PM

Roy, I had to stop at "I think the key is getting

past survival of the fittest, and focusing on the survival of the whole."

Are you serious? If I know that I'm working harder than the bum next to me for no other

reason than to make his life better, then what's my incentive?

Do you realize how much of this country's worth is based on the people that strive?

The people that try to imagine. The people that want to learn. The people that want to

excel and come up with new ideas.

If you have a society that is focusing on "survival of the whole", wouldn't everyone

do just what it takes to "get by"?

You won't have any more entrepreneurs, anymore out of the box thinkers, or anymore

'Bill Gates' types. You'll just have a bunch of people, doing what

it takes to get by, because it doesn't matter. Their not working to excel, their working

to make the bum next to them have the same kind of life.

BTW, this country's ingenuity is it's greatest asset and it's biggest GDP.

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Fri, May 25, 2012, at 12:36 AM

KT, not true in all societies. There are slackers in every society. That is a fact. Explain something to me KT. How is it that Australia manages to have good health care for all, great public transit, great infrastructure, a good standard of living and a budget that will go back to surpluses next year?

When I speak of "survival of the whole", I'm not talking about pure socialism.

Does it make you proud to be an American when we have our own citizens living in cardboard boxes in the winter because there is no warm and safe shelter? People dying due to lack of medical care? The list goes on.

The entire issue is far too complicated to discuss in depth on this or any other blog. Face to face over coffee would be a better venue.

There are answers out there, but today's political climate has made "reasonable discussion" an impossibility.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Fri, May 25, 2012, at 6:08 AM

As usual, nothing changes. Focus in on the countries that are failing, and paint all of Europe and the rest of the world with the same brush.

Ignore facts. Emotional rhetoric sells better.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Fri, May 25, 2012, at 11:30 AM

Roy

"As a country, we have become so large and so diverse, that the 2 party system no longer functions with the best interest of the whole as it's prime directive. At this point I feel that the parliamentary system would serve us better."

I have attempted on many occasions to express this very thought. It never seemed to come out quite as succinctly, of course. The current two party structure is simply too divisive. Also, they try to encompass too many philosophies and in the end they tend to gravitate towards the middle anyways.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, May 25, 2012, at 1:49 PM

When 1 party fails to hold an absolute majority, then minority members of the coalition have to be listened to.

I am glad someone understands what I have been trying to get at.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Fri, May 25, 2012, at 2:11 PM

You can be a socialist...or, you could work for the government and/or be married to a government worker. Then you could claim to be "entitled" to the taxpayer's dime while maintaining your distance from the true parasites.

Hypocrites...if you're receiving a check (non social security/medicare) from Uncle Sam; and you are not currently doing any work to earn it, then you're sucking from the government teat. Get used to cynicism and sarcasm...you earned it.

-- Posted by junkyard dog on Fri, May 25, 2012, at 5:46 PM

Ignoring and not commenting on the following speaks much about you Buckshot.

Does it make you proud to be an American when we have our own citizens living in cardboard boxes in the winter because there is no warm and safe shelter? People dying due to lack of medical care?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Fri, May 25, 2012, at 9:10 PM

My Husband Pat helped put flags on the graves of the fallen solders today. Monday he will be at the cemetery for the service and then up to pine for the service there.Then he will help remove the flags from the grave sites in Mtn Home. He has been doing this for many years without missing one Memorial Day Service.

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Fri, May 25, 2012, at 11:44 PM

For your information Buckshot, my uncle, who died before I was born, died in action in WW2.

You fail to speak in specifics. Pick an era in American history you would like to see us return to.

18th century, 19th century, when??????

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, May 26, 2012, at 5:53 AM

My uncle did not die to see American citizens in soup kitchen lines, living in cardboard boxes or dying from lack of basic medical care! He did not die to see American citizens being forced to "pray to eat"! I have had a homeless person live with me in the past.

Charity is something that should be given freely, not expecting someone to have to listen to sermons in order to eat!

Your answers seem to heap more and more indignity on top of the indignity of being homeless, hungry, and needing medical care!

The America you envision is the America at the beginning of the great depression it seems.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, May 26, 2012, at 9:49 AM

I for one dont like someone who didnt serve to tell me why I served.I also dont like someone discounting my service because they consider me liberal without asking.When we talk of reflections of our national heritage called freedom let'S reflect on just what that means and not base it on what your political persuasion says it means.EVERY american has the right to interpret that as they see fit without being insulted for not seeing it as you see it.

You dont know why we give our lives you didnt give us the courtesy of asking.You take for granted you can say what you want and you can but I'm the one who paid the bill.

YOU SEE MY SERVICE DOLED OUT FREEDOM TO YOU.

TO MY BROTHERS IN ARMS HAVE A GREAT DAY,TO MY BROTHERS WHO HAVE GONE WE HAVN'T FORGOTTEN.

-- Posted by lamont on Sat, May 26, 2012, at 1:20 PM

What an arrogant TWIT!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, May 29, 2012, at 6:03 AM

DIDNT THINK THAT AT ALL JUST WONDERED HOW SOMEONE WHO DIDNT SERVE COULD TELL THOSE OF US WHO DID WHAT WE THINK .and as far as your cursing is concerned it just reinforceses your arrogance. AND MY SERVICE DID PAY THE BILL SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT DOLING OUT SOMETHING MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO DOLE IT OUT.

I JOINED, VOLUNTARILY ,AND SERVED VOLUNTARILY,NO DUBIOUS REASON,,,,,SPEAKING OF DUBIOUS REASONS,your so high and mighty buckshot how come you didnt serve??? YOU CANT NULLIFY MY SERVICE DONT EVEN TRY.BASED ON YOUR WAY OF THINKING ANYONE WHO MIGHT BE LIBERAL HAD TO HAVE A DUBIOS REASON TO SERVE........TRY patriotism,love of country......and I didnt give it lip service.....so take your insult and shove it.SO MUCH FOR DUBIOUS.YOUR EGO SEEMS TO OVERLOAD YOUR BRAIN YOU SEEM TO THINK YOU GODS GIFT TO THE BLOG OR SOMETHING......PROJECT YOUR WEAKNESS ELSEWERE......YOU get insulting when you get called on your garbage because you dont have a reasonable answer,You are nothing short of a bully I dont scare easly.last time I got really scared I WAS IN THE BUSH protecting your freedom.

WE WILL TAKE A THANKYOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND YOU CAN GO AWAY AND WATCH THE NEXT ONE ON TV LIKE YOU DID THE LAST ONE.

-- Posted by lamont on Tue, May 29, 2012, at 5:08 PM

And your insults and name calling are as inane as you. And by the way you have never failed to say how often you have done this and that.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, May 29, 2012, at 8:35 PM

Thankyou ROY ......he just did it.SO you feel you can stand in judgement of me......I am one of the most least deserving.....ACCORDING TO WHO. YOU?.....What is your exscuse for not serving??

THEY served proudly I should hope so,NO different than I did.YOU have no idea what I have done to make AMERICA BETTER AND I dont have any reason to tell you,The people who's LIVES WERE TOUCHED BY ME know who they are and they are to numerous to count,you can call that and accolade if you want.A hatefull post is anything a liberal says,to bad you dont pay attention to yourself.

You see there was nothing in the original post that wasnt real, you have no right to SPEAK out ABOUT anything concerning why we serve. my service did pay the bill so when you came back with your garbage you showed your ignorance.I HAD BEEN WONDERING HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE YOU TO ATTACK MY SERVICE.

You need to remember that part of my attitude today was fostered by my service of yesterday and the treatment recieved by me from people like you.YOUR so proud to be and AMERICAN BUT YOU DIDNT SERVE.....YOUR AND IGNORANT WIND BAG WHO CANT RESPECT HIMSELF NEVER MIND ANYONE ELSE.you dont like minority's who can take care of themselfes goes against everything you believe,you dont like liberals because they can think for themselfes and they see human kind as falliable.I GET SO TIRED OF YOUR INSECURE SELF RIGHTOUSE,IGNORANT INSULTS TO EVERYONE WHO YOU CATERGORIZE IN THOSE BLOCKS IT.S PATHETIC.

Simply PUT IN A FOX HOLE WITH YOU I would shoot you first.I AM GLAD YOU DIDNT SERVE ONE LT CALLEY WAS ENOUGH...........SO write all the insults you want you have showed what you are all about and you confirm it daily.Your just and ignorant bloviating person THAT IS HERE TO TRY AND MAKE HIMSELF FEEL GOOD.......DONT LET ANYTHING GET IN YOUR WAY after all you are a self made man......we have a name for them that I will resist using.........HAVE A GOOD ?????????????

-- Posted by lamont on Tue, May 29, 2012, at 11:23 PM

The motivations behind serving in the military and the rampant government spending of the last 30 years are two separate spheres. Those who serve do not do so in the name of government spending. They have a far grander but more general purpose in mind.

Back to the topic, I can empathize with those who are poor. Yes, after having nothing for a while it can be hard to be fiscally responsible. After being on the street for a month, I remember spending my first paycheck from the temp service in less than an hour. I felt dumb afterwards but what is done is done. Those poor people who indulge themselves by buying t-bone steaks and other unnecessary luxuries are doing the same thing as I did. However, that does not give them a free pass.

If they are going to live off someone else, those options should be increasingly rare. I am not sure that there is a way of eliminating it but making it difficult should be sufficient. I am not completely behind this construct but would like to see a more responsible approach taken by those who receive the assistance.

Roy,

I was homeless once for a month in SLC. I discovered early on that to stay at any of the shelters in the downtown one had to sit through a 3-5 hour sermon. I endured it once and never again. I do not begrudge them for their faith but felt it was a waste of time. After that, I found my own way and succeeded. In the upcoming weeks as I was working my way off the street, the church types just had to come by and tell me the error of my ways. I minded my own business, never begged for a dime, and yet they just had to be self-righteous. Hmmm...

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, May 30, 2012, at 9:33 AM

Buckshot, you can speak for your family if you wish. You have NO right to speak for other families, including MINE!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Wed, May 30, 2012, at 11:08 AM

YES BUCKSHOTT AND HERE IS THE REASON THAT YOU MISSED STUPID.....YOU ARE A WILD CARD THAT CANT BE TRUSTED IN COMBAT WE DEPEND ON EACH OTHER AND WE ALSO UNDERSTAND HUMANITY WETHER DEATH IS ENVOVLVED OR NOT YOU ARE A LT CALLEY.

Again you make and assumption based on what You think a liberal will do.And for your information if you have been keeping track of my post which I assume you do seeing how your telling me how evil I am ....MY family fought for this country generation after generation also.FROM VIRIGINA IN THE CIVIL WAR THROUGH THIS LAST GARBAGE.yOU DONT HAVE ANY MONOPLY CONTRARY TO YOUR BELIEFE ON BEING AND AMERICAN.FROM your rehtoric you fullfill the symbol of the UGLY AMERICAN

MY HATFULLNES IS DIRECTED AT PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO DONT HAVE A CLUE ABOUT HUMANITY JUST THERE OWN SELFSERVING INSULTING,DEGRADING RHETORIC.

You dont know what I have done in my life and you cannot sit in judgement of anyone.THAT IS THE FIRST LESSON OF HUMILTY YOU SHOULD TRY IT.YOUR not bigger than the whole your part of it and because you have this idea of what person should be doesnt make it so.The problem being based on your message you will kill those who disagree if you had the power. That is the reason you cant be trusted in combat.The only thing in combat that is absolute is death.

You feel you can disrespect my service because I dont sing your tune as you see it.YOUR A FRAUD AND ANYONE WITH COMMON SENSE CAN READ AND SEE IT ON THIS BLOG......SO CONTINUE ON IN THIS FANTASY WORLD OF THE PERFECT AS JUDGED BY YOU BUT DONT EVEN ATTEMPT TO JUDGE ME......WHEN I LEAVE THIS WORLD THE CHURCH WILL BE FULL AND THEY WILL COME FROM FAR AND WIDE THEY WILL BE EVERY COLOR AND ETHINICITY IN THE WORLD THEY WILL REMEMBER I WAS HERE.....FOR ME THEY ARE MY CHILDREN ALL OF THEM...SO I AM OK ....I DONT NEED OR WANT PEOPLE LIKE YOU AROUND ME....YOU ARE THE EVIL....SO IN CLOSING GO TO ..........

-- Posted by lamont on Wed, May 30, 2012, at 12:05 PM

TWILL.....I have been advocating some form of the same approach for years and it can be done.THERE IS NO POLITICAL WILL TO DO IT IT IS ONE OF THOSE FOOTBALLS THAT EVERYONE JUST TOSSES AROUND.

All of the programs are to far removed from controls and the administrators hearts might be in the right place but that is not getting it done it doesnt serve the client or the public. COST benefits can be realized with proper administration,It would also foster and atmosphere of having to be responsible.CHANGES NEEDED TO BUY THINGS CAN BE PUT IN PLACE THAT WOULD ALSO REALIZE HUGE COST SAVINGS ,AGAIN WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO DONT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.Somebody wont make as much money initially,but it sure would save the taxe payer.

WE could go on about this forever the solutions are there they dont want to sit down and thoughtfully put them in place,they dont want to change ,They might have to work......smile.

-- Posted by lamont on Wed, May 30, 2012, at 12:19 PM

And buckshot I would say your full of something as well, but it ain't humanity

OK now lets see what you do with my comment?

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Wed, May 30, 2012, at 10:45 PM

You wouldnt know WHAT HUMANITY IS ALL ABOUT.....YOUR ABOVE US REMEMBER ???????? And yes I eat regular AND THE FOOD IS NOT BOUGHT WITH FOOD STAMPS....so there goes one of your preconceptions.....HA !!!!!! QUITE

-- Posted by lamont on Wed, May 30, 2012, at 10:50 PM

OH .... and there is nothing wrong with the song in my opinion it's a song (PROTEST).If he lost his job over it I WOULD SUE....oR was there more to it than that???????

-- Posted by lamont on Wed, May 30, 2012, at 11:13 PM

DECENT FOLKS?????????" YOUR ARE AND ARROGANT .......IF YOU THINK I am and idiot what does that make you ????????? I am sure you DECENT folk(ONLY CONSERVATIVES NEED APPLY) Are just tickled to death that the all mighty buckshott has blessed you.

YOU think you are going to insult and get away with it you are dead wrong.Like I said your a fraud period.QUITE THROWING INSULTS AND IT WILL STOP.YOU are not better than anyone here dont you get that??????

-- Posted by lamont on Thu, May 31, 2012, at 11:59 AM

"I know you are but what am I?"...

Do not feed the trolls. You can't fight with stupid or insanity (the voices in their heads will not allow it). Why even waste the time and energy? No matter what facts you present, they just play the blame game. They have an inability to deal with reality. A POTUS who does not even know his history. Makes me want to puke.

KT, please write a new blog. Maybe something on Obama and his stupid comment about "death camps" that has people all in a fluster.

It is too bad that you can't control who comments on your blog. It sure would be nice to not even have to look at some of the crap that is posted---

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Thu, May 31, 2012, at 3:08 PM

WRONG......NICE TRY but you cant change the subject and you are the one who has been race baiting.....decent folks who are they????? you pat yourself on the back for traits you do not have in any greater or lesser degree than anyone else.If emotional means that I wont let you attempt to make me less than so be it.SO YOU EQUATE AS I SAID LEBERALS TO LESS THAN AS YOU PUT IT STUPIDTY /LIBERALISM....I am not shouting I AM STATING WHAT YOU YOUR SELF HAVE BROUGHT TO THE TABLE.sOme people state there points well without insulting bigoted remarks and some people dont.YOU on the other hand dont even know the difference.

You attacked the thought process of why we wear uniforms and made some comments you had no qualifications to make,then when called on it you wanted to show us how tough you were how logical,lucid,intelligent etc YOU JUST DONT GET IT... UNLESS YOU DID IT SHUT UP.... YOU SAT ON THE COUCH ADMITE IT AND MOVE ON. YOU AND DICK CHANEY HELD HANDS AND SAID YOU HAD BETTER THINGS TO DO.IT'S OK.... just dont try and tell us who served what we think.

So you think by calling me or anyone else a stooge is the way to go??? and just what is that sopposed to garner you???? I am beginning to think you dont know how to exspress yourself any other way unless your talking to DECENT FOLK.A gain you know nothing about me so when comparing intellgence it would be best if you didnt make any

assumptions.Most people who attempt to do what you do using the language you do are not considered to be to high on the intelligent quotent.Yours is a feeble attempt to act out your form of superiority we are not buying it.

I know that most of the bloggers here are conservatives that doesnt bother me so I feel that they will side with you.Most seem to be emored with you and that's there business.That will not change the fact that you are a name calling insulting coward/fraud.And your inference to ZOOK, get it straight we didnt need name calling to have and argument never have to bad you dont understand that.HE never was snide and insulting and dog whistling which you are pretty good at.

ANY minority who doesnt accept your premise is a racist so be it.2 things happened at the same time I AM A MAN ,AND I AM BLACK AND YOU AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE THAT.I WILL NOT BOW TO YOUR RACIST IDEALOGY.......DECENT FOLK..... AH..... YES...... ONE OF THE CODE WORDS......YES.... IT IS IN THE CONTEXT THAT YOU USED IT......YOU REALLY THINK PEOPLE ARE STUPID......YOU ARE THE STUPID ONE.....thinking you can get away with that.......terrible try but keep it up if it makes you feel good.

-- Posted by lamont on Thu, May 31, 2012, at 3:36 PM

Good links Buckshot61. I'm seeing more and more pictures of Maobama with a cute little mustache in my travels and the protesters to go along with the pictures. Looks like some people have figured it out. Be nice to take the Senate too!!!!!!

-- Posted by skeeter on Thu, May 31, 2012, at 3:38 PM

back to the topic.

This is essentially about poverty. Americans, for the most part, measure poverty by relative income. It is not the exact amount that really matters but rather how it stacks up to the others.

The debate on here centers on what, if anything, society should do about it. Implicitly, those who really care about it think that poverty is something we can solve. The solution offered by most is to throw money at them. The idea being that if we give them resources that they will become more productive citizens. That they will become less of a negative externality to society. Some say it is more of a culture issue then lack of resources. Their logic is that by infusing the lower end of society with resources that they will be less likely to use drugs, make bad decisions, and so on. Food stamps and such are just one attempt at this.

I have to admit that I am skeptical. I come from the trailer park and have been homeless. I have to say that I am not all that sure that some really want their less-than-affluent lives to change. There are many reasons and in the interest of space will let the reader figure them out.

My only suggestion is that we need to not give them things but rather provide opportunity. If they take the opportunities, then good for them. However, they have to show the initiative to start the process. The old and mentally ill are exempt from this construct. Young, working age adults are sometimes confronted with obstacles that can seem daunting. It may be of their own doing and it may not. Overall, my general suggestion would be that we need to provide opportunity not simply throw money and resources at them.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Thu, May 31, 2012, at 4:05 PM

OH isnt that AMERICAN COLLOQIAL ENGLISH AS SPOKEN BY THE CONSERVATIVE PART OF THIS NATION AFTER ALL DONT YOU BOW TO THE GOD OF GREEN.......YES I SAID BUY AND SELL YOU..........YOU SEEM TO THINK YOU ARE SO SUPPERIOR TO US ALL,YOU ARE A SLAVE TO A PART OF AND IDEALOGY THAT IS NOT ALL ENCOMPASSING IT ONLY ENCOMPASSES THOSE WHO FEEL AND ACT THE WAY THAT YOU DO........HAVE YOU STARTED BUILDING THE CAMPS YET????????? I AM SURE YOU WILL VOLUNTEER TO BE THE COMMANDANT AT A MINUMUM.

YOU MADE A MISTAKE I only care about slavery from the historical point of the impact it has had on the progress of a people.Buying and selling people is happening right in front of you today.......or has the politics of today eluded you? OR IS IT AS LONG AS THE CONSERVATIVES DO IT IT IS OK.......BE CAREFULL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.....DONT CALL ME A TROLL,I WOULDNT THINK OF INTRUDING ON YOUR POND.CANT TALK WITHOUT AND INSULT CAN YOU?????

-- Posted by lamont on Thu, May 31, 2012, at 6:05 PM

Buckshot,

What I was writing about and what Prager speaks of are two completely independent spheres. I am going to leave it at that.

When I was on the street for that month, there were some interesting phenomena. One, in the complete absence of typical social hierarchy, these homeless types still had leaders. The group that I associated with was about 35-40 in number. They all came to Salt Lake independently of each other and were homeless for reasons unique to themselves. None of the usual correlations. And yet we still had a defined leader. The ideal setup for anarchy and yet it still did not happen.

Second, one of the bigger issues facing someone that is homeless is boredom. The boredom, in part, fuels the drug abuse and unseemly behavior. A lot of people who view it from their perceived pulpit think that those on the street are just idiots or some other derogatory name or quality. That is sometimes true but having been there, I can tell you that one about loses your mind. Only so many books you can read. Only so many parks to take in. After awhile, one has to have some productive use of their time. Prior to this ordeal, I thought that they were just being lazy and worthless. I have since backed off that and can see their plight for what it really is.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, Jun 1, 2012, at 9:37 AM

TWILL.....my thought was for the lack of a better term group think.In the poorer areas I have noticed that there seems to be and encouragment to remain one of the group and that tends to keep everyone on even keel.You see that when a child excells and the others start to make fun of them because of it.So then I would think it becomes harder to overcome especially if the priority is to survive a given day.I would think where you have enviroments such as projects that would be and overwhelming factor in the continuence of poverty.Like you I didnt see lazy people in that enviroment ,but I did see desperate ones.I would contend that if survival is the goal,calculus doesnt count.

SO we have a big merry go round,and the cycle has to be broken and it can be,I dont feel money alone will do that and money for money sake is so temporary and superfical that it is useless.THERE HAVE BEEN SOME PILOT PROGRAMS THAT USED FOR INSTANCE GARDENS AS A MEANS OF PROVIDING HANDS ON PRIDE.They seem to work in a limited sense but the basic premise is to instill self worth I really feel that is the key not some plastic garbage. ANYHOW JUST SOME THOUGHTS.....LATTER

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 1, 2012, at 10:45 AM

The homeless are a bit of an enigma. Most of those on the street are the elderly and/or mentally ill. No amount of money thrown at them is going to change their ways. When the money runs out so will they.

Of the 150 or so homeless that I consorted with during that month, only a handful were legitimate hard luck cases where the person was young and not mentally ill. I witnessed plenty of acting and scamming as well.

That all being said, the question is what society should do about this, if anything? For society as a whole to act on it, the middleman would have to be government. Government would come in the form of funds and regulation. Funds and regulation aimed at putting a band-aid on this. Is it really worth expending the time, energy, money, and resources if the implicitly stated goals can never be reached? I do not know the answer. I will say that private charity can be remarkably effective. Also, most that so vehemently disagree with helping them are misguided. I agree with their sentiment but they are throwing their darts at the wrong target. Instead of getting self-righteous about government taking money from them and using it on lazy, ungrateful bums why not just see it for what it really is. It is simply a waste of funds. No matter how well-intentioned it is, the "return" on this expenditure is never going to approach the point of solvency. Most of the individuals that would be helped are not mentally/physically able to meet the unwritten goals of self-sufficiency or productivity. Those that are would be better served having to struggle and find their own way. The hard luck cases will most always find a way.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, Jun 1, 2012, at 1:54 PM

CALL any name you want opinion missy you get a pass I DONT FIGHT WITH WOMEN.....ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO CANNOT INTERPRET WITHIN CONTEXT........HAVE A GREAT DAY.

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 1, 2012, at 2:47 PM

TWILL......I think all goals must be set from within and cannot be met in this instance by being imposed.I too get the impression that many chose the life they live and that is the way they want it.IN those cases we cannot ask society to subsedize a way of life that does not at least become self sustaining.I am not into paying for others to live who are capable.WE provide oppertunity without caveats and we have done what we should do.....that is my thought. Well got to run have a gig tonight.we MIGHT MEET UP TALKING ABOUT ONE IN RENO.......TAKE CARE.

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 1, 2012, at 3:06 PM

"Interpret within context." ROTFLMBO. Now that was a good one from the king of caps lock and shoulder chips and fabrication of context to fit his own needs/views. Sorry Buckshot...fed the stupid troll one last time. As the plane goes right over head.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Fri, Jun 1, 2012, at 3:35 PM

Adults behaving badly ! Good example your showing OM and you to Buckshot. Lets teach the kids to bully and insult others because they don't agree with you.

Bullying behavior may include name calling, verbal or written abuse. Bullies may behave this way to be perceived as popular or tough or to get attention. They may bully out of jealousy or be acting out because they themselves are bullied.

Why do people insult others??

When someone makes fun of another person, insults, mocks or ridicules, it is to get attention. They feel it will make them more popular and liked. Another reason is because they are sad inside. The smart people who are mocked, ridiculed and insulted more then once are often smarter then the person doing the insulting.

The person who hands out insults knows that they are no where near as smart as the person they are making fun of. When they make fun of a smart person, it takes attention away from that persons knowledge and puts it on the person making fun.

Its a sad day when you have to insult and mock someone to make yourself look good.

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Fri, Jun 1, 2012, at 5:55 PM

IT IS OK miss m.....they havnt done anything I didnt expect.They are doing what they do and they feel great about it.They are just demonstrating why people are not republicans.I GUESS IF YOU DONT TYPE PERFECT YOU CANT BE ONE SO I KNOW I DONT QUALIFY........SMILE.

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 1, 2012, at 7:21 PM

HISTORY FOR SOME WHO DONT KNOW IT

TREATED PRISONERS OF WAR BETTER than some of there own soldiers

PRISONER ALLOWED TO EAT AND DRINK AT PLACES WERE THERE OWN SOLDIERS COULD NOT.

Allowed lynchings and murders of there OWN soldiers in uniform in there own country.

TURNED AWAY NUMBERS OF SHIPS CARRYING REFUGEES FROM A WAR WERE THEY KNEW GENOCIDE WAS TAKING PLACE.

I COULD GO ON, BUT THAT IS LESSON ONE AND THERE ARE MORE.....NOTICE I DIDNT INSULT ANYONE BUT I AM SURE SOMEONE WILL INTERPRET IT AS I DID..FACTS of WW 2 that we dont want to talk about.These atrocities PALE compared to some but they happened none the less.....I guess the people it happened to should say thankyou and then it makes it OK.....hello!!!!!!!!!!

IF YOU DISAGREED in nazi germany you DIED, or were locked up.....they had a lot of camps just for DISSEDENTS.( OTHER THAN DEATH CAMPS)SO I have to wonder based on the rehtoric here what is going to happen TO THOSE WHO DISAGEE WITH THE RIGHT WING IDEALOGY if THEY ATTAIN THE ABSOLUTE POWER THEY SEEK.....I think that is a valid question????????

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 1, 2012, at 9:04 PM

MsM:

You are the LAST person to shake your finger at me. You do your own fair share and then some of insulting people and baiting people. So, please spare me the lecture.

My comments were not to insult or bully. My comments were to simply point out the fact that Carl/Lamont uses every chance he can to slam the same group of people. As part of that group of people, it offends me. The same way Lamont gets offended at any point in time when he THINKS the color of his skin has come into play (which seems to be all of the time and no matter what is said by whom). That was my point. First, the "Jews went meekly. Next, "we" (collective) are building death camps. Now, someone will command those camps. I find the constant reminder by Lamont to the events of WWII to be offensive---NOT because he brings it up mind you but because of how he does it and what he says/how he says it.

Clearly way over your head MsM. Thank you for your lecture. If it came from KH or perhaps skeeter, I would pay more attention as those 2 rarely, if ever throw insults around. So, thanks for the comments but people in glass houses who throw large rocks, should really not lecture. You MsM are one of those people who will throw the first punch in a bar and then crawl under tables and leave. Thank you again for the lecture. Now, if I only I gave a rats backside what you think. If only.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Sat, Jun 2, 2012, at 4:51 PM

Oh Lamont---please! Really? You have made your thought pretty clear on the events of WWII. You stated at one point that you did not mean your statement the way that it came across. The really sad thing is that you meant it just as you said it but felt the need to "take it back" once you were called on it.

Murdering ANYONE---yellow, green, purple, black, white or brown---IS NEVER RIGHT no matter how bad we want to say it is. Taking another life, without cause (such as the death penalty), is NEVER right. Hanging people in trees, not ok. Burning a cross in a yard, not ok. Spray painting slurs (of any sort) on someone's property, not ok. Stealing from someone, not ok. Making fun of a child/person because they are "different" (color, dress, general look, etc.), not ok.

You say you want equality. Really? Because it seems like you want special treatment. We all have a hard time in life at one time or another. Not all of us have an outdated law to protect us. Not all of us have "special standards" to "level a playing field." Some of us out here have to make it on our own and on our own merits. Not always easy and EVERYONE faces some sort of inequality. Those are the facts. However, I am fairly sure you will fail to see this.

You and MsM. Two peas in the perfect pod.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Sat, Jun 2, 2012, at 5:02 PM

SO ......OUTDATED LAWS,SPECIAL STANDARDS,LEVEL LAYING FIELD,OWN MERITS.Seem to bother some.hard time in life.PERSONALLY the laws and standards spoken off should never had to have been used.We .WE institutionalized DISCRIMINATION AND THE ONLY WAY YOU CHANGE THAT IS THROUGH THE LAW.GERMANY has the laws to protect JEWS.I called on nothing AND YOU KNOW THAT op it was a statement and you dont know what was in my heart so dont even take your ethenocentrism and project were it doesnt belong.You can believe what you want obviously you didnt read the apology and you tend to do that with everything I SAY.THE EVENTS OF WW2 SEEM TO BE FOR YOU NARROWED TO WHAT HAPPENED TO THE JEWS ,IT WAS NOT THE ONLY EVENT OF SIGNIFICANCE.millions OF GERMAN POW'S DIED IN RUSSIA NEVER HEARD FROM AFTER CAPTIVITY.

MY refernce to camps is but and illustration of the way the conservative rehetoric comes across,my way or the hiway,seperation of the country,statements like decent folk,IF YOU DONT SEE IT OUR WAY IT'S WRONG AND TO PROVE YOUR WRONG I AM GOING TO INSULT YOU,CURSE YOU,BERATE YOU ETC. etc .THER SEEMS TO BE AND ELEMENT OF WE CAN INSULT CALL PEOPLE NAMES AND DO IT WITH IMPUNITY.

I HAVE NEVER ADVOCATED NOR SUGGESTED SPECIAL TREATMENT.I have always said the goal is to be treated the same as and that is all I have advocated.When I get people trying to tell me what I have done in my life without them knowing substantialy I FIND THAT INSULTING.You want to know what I have done ask,dont try to tell me what has happened to me ask....JUST as I have liberal leanings I have some conservative leanings....... dont make assumptions.

last......I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT you find nothing wrong with BUCHKSHOTTS insulting and snide remarks made daily to anyone who disagrees with him,OR HE DECIDES IS A LIBERAL matter of fact you cheer him on just like you have attempted to come to the rescue here.I find his approch offensive and stated that was the problem a long time ago.You OP HAVE A PROBLEM IN MY OPINION.....with always making the minority out to be the person who is in the wrong,I have never said by any means they are not without guilt or responsibility.I pointed out a case in florida at the same time as the MARTIN CASE THAT I THOUGHT WAS A TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE AND YOU TOTALY IGNORED WHAT I SAID .Who ever got something you think you should have gotten you need to go back at that entity I didnt do anything to you,BUT I AM HERE AND AND EASY TARGET SO GO FOR IT....REMEMBER THIS......THE STATISTICS ARE VERY CLEAR DISCRIMINATION IS ALIVE AND WELL IN AMERICA you can ignore and or alibi if you want but I am still living it.I dont know how old you are but I THINK I have a few years on most and I have lived it,it didnt stop me but it should not have been there and it certainly should not be continuing.....and those are facts which I am sure YOU will fail to see.......you and buckshott two peas in the perfect pod.............

SO GO AHEAD ATTACK SPELLING,TYPING,AND ANY NUMBER OF THINGS AND IGNORE THE MESSAGE.....I WOULD HOPE SOMETHING WOULD CHANGE.

-- Posted by lamont on Sun, Jun 3, 2012, at 10:49 AM

OM I don't live in a glass house and I am only human to give back what was given, however I am not the one to throw the first punch... I also don't critique anyone on their grammar or using caps lock and I certainly don't mock them or post ROTFLMBO when they don't spell perfect.

There have been many writers with different interpretations of "they walked meekly" Some have said it was a put down on the Jews because some thought they were meek. The truth is they were very brave and would fight to the end. Then there were those who interpreted it as saying they walked meekly into the gas chambers because they didn't know that they were walking to their death.

"We were good people, used to obeying the rules of our religion and our city and country out of pride. Now, we obeyed because we had no choice. Whatever they did to us, we had to accept it meekly and quietly." http://www.museumoffamilyhistory.com/ce/...

I'm done on this blog.

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Sun, Jun 3, 2012, at 12:03 PM

THANKS MS M BUT IT WILL MAKE NO DIFFERENCE THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID AND THE CONTEXT......IF YOU READ THE POST IT IS ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE AND IT IS CLEAR WHAT.......The thought is that I got special tretment,THEY GET SPECIAL TREATMENT.....out dated laws says it all.I SAID IT I will say it again the traversty is that we had to have those laws at all.

TO BE TRUTH FULL WITH YOU I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HER ROTFLMBO IS SOPPOSED TO MEAN AND REALLY DONT CARE.I am typing thoughts on a blog not writting a term paper I COULD CARE LESS HOW THE WORDS GET THERE..........I have important things to worry about.You notice how the fall back position is I will use your name on the blog if that's my name instead of your blog name......total disrespect of the rules .That is what happens when you dont think the rules apply and notice I am the only one that there is and attempt to do that to.So much for the same as.....smile

-- Posted by lamont on Sun, Jun 3, 2012, at 3:05 PM

It is quite clear that this blog contains members of many generations. I implore those who care to watch a documentary entitled, "The Generation Imperative" by Chuck Underwood. It very articulately and thoroughly breaks down the five living generations. He shows that one is no better than the other. Certain individuals on here could learn from that last statement.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Sun, Jun 3, 2012, at 6:52 PM

MsM:

As ususal, you have mis-posted. My ROTFLMBO comment had NOTHING to do with Lamont's spelling. The comment made direct reference to the "context" remark he made which is why it was posted with "_____" marks around it---just so nobody misunderstood what I was commenting back about. Clearly that went right over your head. Too much rum?

Lamont, whatever. We will agree to disagree. I do not like to have non-productive discussions with people who can't see the other side of a situation or how their words come across. With a blog, unlike a face to face conversation, you can't read body language or facial expressions or tone of voice. You can however make an "assumption" based on repeated content and thoughts put to words.

Certain comments may be different generations and that gap. But constant comments about death camps and someone being a commander of such a thing are just rude. I highly doubt that Buckshot wants to head anything like that and those comments are horrid (and those are not the only comments).

MsM, thank you for the grammar lesson and what "meekly" can mean. Sometimes it is not the meaning of the word/words---it is what the person says over and over and over again.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Sun, Jun 3, 2012, at 7:20 PM

QUESTION ....OPM.....HAS BUCHSHOTT SAID ANYTHING YOU WOULD CONSIDER HORRID????? Because as far as im concerned he has and I am not alone.Simple you attack me for no reason other than being to the left of what you percieve is right and I will come back......I can disagree and so can you but I dont call names to do that and I will not be called names to satisfy anyone's need to curse people.IF you name call me I will only take but so much.

ZOOK AN I got into it all the time we did not curse each other or call each other names.We still dont and we still argue.KEITH AND I HAVE disagreed we didnt name call each other or attempt to denergrate one another.IT'S the name calling and at my age NO !!!!!!!

FOR the last time I use examples that I have lived you dont want to hear them skip my comments.I dont have to justify my lifes exsperiences to anyone,and when you tell me I havnt done what you have to better AMERICANS I will put my accomplishments up against anyone.NO one WILL TELL ME HOW TO BE AND AMERICAN.LIKE I said before I paid the bill for the freedom we enjoy,and if you think that you CAN denergrate that and it's ok AINT GONNA HAPPEN......I dont have and argument with you and I have done everything I can to AVOID ONE SO I'm GOING TO LEAVE IT AT THAT........And that is a double standard I dont run from fights.......IT'S a beautifull day have a good one ....later

-- Posted by lamont on Sun, Jun 3, 2012, at 9:05 PM

Zook:

Glad to see ya around. Hope you are well my friend.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 9:10 AM

ZOOK......IV GOT THE CHILTONS IN THE CAR......HOWS THE MUSIC????? IT'S summer finally and my phone hasnt stoped.Got to play wednesday night and the weekend.But wouldnt trade it for the world.

YOU touched on something I PROBALLY WOULDNT TRADE MY AGE EITHER......as LONG AS I get to see my grands graduate college I am fine.

Got to tell you...... one of my grands was the little one with the pink motor scooter at the rally sunday......she was lit up like a xmas tree,I am so proud of them all....so I guess granpa was lit up too ...... good to see you here even for a run in run out........another great day take care ......later

-- Posted by lamont on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 11:23 AM

Generation gaps exist because no set of years is exactly identical. The social fabric that is in place when each is growing up (ages 0-10) lay the foundation for each generation. To pretend that one is better than the other is lunacy. No person is better than the other and hence one generation is not better than the other. That is blasphemy to some but they need to get off their high horse.

Back to the topic, when certain types on here go on about welfare they immediately go to the illegal card. Quick fact, we have the biggest trailer park in the world here in Reno. It is called Sun Valley. Of the nearly 10700 residents, more than 60% of them are on state assistance. Oh, and get this.... More than 60% of those recipients are white. Yes, good old fashioned white bread Americans living on the dole. Assumptions and jumping to conclusions can come back to bite you in the ___.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 11:55 AM

Welfare stats as of 5/18/12 from the Dept. of Comm.:

Welfare Statistics

Total number of American's on welfare: 15,000,000

Percent of the US population on welfare: 4.1%

Total government spending on welfare annually (not including food stamps or unemployment): $131.9 billion

Percent of recipients who are white: 38.8%

Percent of recipients who are black: 39.8%

Percent of recipients who are hispanic: 15.7%

Percent of recipients who are Asian: 2.4%

Percent of recipients who are Other: 3.3%

We have the growing problem of unemployment in this country. As long as there are no/few jobs, people will have no choice but to go on assistance (or turn to criminal acts to survive). In 40 states, welfare pays near minimum wage. Go figure.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 12:37 PM

Participants for food stamps alone: 44.7 million people. Look at those numbers soar since Obama took office!

According to the United States Department of Agriculture (based on a study of data gathered in Fiscal Year 2010), statistics for the food stamp program are as follows:

49% of all participants are children (17 or younger), and 49% of them live in single-parent households.

15% of all participants are elderly (age 60 or over).

20% of all participants are non-elderly disabled people.

The average gross monthly income per food stamp household is $731; The average net income is $336.

36% of participants are White; 22% are African-American, not Hispanic; 10% are Hispanic; 2% are Asian, 4% are Native American, and 19% are of unknown race or ethnicity.

19% are of "unknown race or ethnicity." Hmmmmmmm. Now that is interesting.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 12:47 PM

OM, You seemed to have missed the fact that when Obama took office, that we were shedding 750,000 jobs a month! Also, how many were on food stamps before he took office?, or doesn't that count??

Many more people became eligible for food stamps when they raised the amount of income a person or family was allowed to make. Many or the folks on food stamps are the working poor.

Which is a better expenditure of money. 7 BILLION DOLLARS A COPY DESTROYERS, or feeding the hungry of our country??

You ever tried stopping a mile long freight train?? It doesn't stop on a dime, it takes MILES!!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 2:04 PM

FOOD stamp assistance will grow with unemployment I DONT THINK THERE IS AND ARGUMENT THERE.There probally is and argument on how we got to the unemployment numbers but it is not worth having again. One problem I see is as the numbers increase are we going to have more people who get complacent and remain in the programs???? I would hope not but human nature says otherwise.

There is another factor that might play in here and that is how many jobs are now minimume wage jobs that do not provide enough to survive on.How many people are not willing to work for that vs assistance and how many are working 2-3 jobs because it is the only way to make ends meet.WE use to work 2 jobs to get ahead now we work them to survive.

We have created and enviroment that fosters everyone who is anyone should be at a desk and look down our noses at anyone who is not.That is reflected in the pay and benefites.I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE NEED TO RETHINK THAT AND REALIZE THAT THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH WORKING WITH YOUR HANDS,and reflect that in the pay.EVERYBODY CANT BE THE ENGINEER THAT BUILT THE ROBOTS.

WHO THE HECK IS THE 19% I REALLY DONT CARE BUT IT IS ALMOST LIKE IT IS A HEDGE NUMBER.BUT I'M WITH YOU WERE DID IT COME FROM INTRESTINGT. I AGREE.

Now I know your not going to like this OPM but by your own numbers the face of welfare should not be what is presented.tHAT IS ONE OF THOSE ANNOYING THINGS THAT GETS OUR HUMAN RELATIONS ALL WIRED UP.

JOBS are NOT controlled by the president or his staff,matter of fact nobody ELECTED controls jobs lets point the finger where it belongs in my opinion and that is corporate AMERICA.CORPORATE ALLEGIANCE TO THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN IS WHAT IS MISSING.Allegiance has changed to profits at all cost each and every day.I am a stock holder I do not need obscene profits I need stability.That is my opinion.I am glad to see manufacturing returning to America ,It takes time and the resurgence will occur we didnt get here in 4 yrs why do people think it can change in 4???I took a beating in the 80's and it really didnt turn around any until the late 90'S. it was about a 15yr cycle.........

-- Posted by lamont on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 2:26 PM

Nah lamont, Romney the savior claims he can create 500,000 jobs a month right after taking office. Yea right! Just where is this instant demand going to come from? Europe? nope, China? nope, instant wealth here? nope.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 2:33 PM

And another point. Your right lamont, Big Business has no allegiance, same a mercenaries.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 2:36 PM

My point in bringing up food stamps and white folks being on it was not to start the blame game. I know that some on here foam at the mouth in anticipation of that but I aim to disappoint apparently. My purpose was to show that quick and dirty, one-size-fits-all explanations of the human realm are always going to make one look stupid. Nothing about humanity is absolute and pretending that there is, is just laziness or ignorance or both.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 3:51 PM

Nah twil, they're just looking for a whipping boy.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 3:59 PM

Some other interesting facts:

Total amount of money you can make monthly and still receive Welfare: $1000

Total Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than an $8 per hour job: 40

Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than a $12 per hour job: 7

Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than the average salary of a U.S. Teacher: 9

The Agriculture Department's annual snapshot on the characteristics of food stamp households, released Friday, shows that seven in 10 households receiving food stamps had no earned income last year, though many got other forms of government benefits.

Nearly 21% of households on food stamps also received Supplemental Security Income, assistance for the aged and blind. Some 21.4% received Social Security benefits. Just 8% of households also received Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, the cash welfare program.

But some 20% of households had no cash income of any kind last year, up from 15% in 2007, the year the recession began, and up from 7% in 1990.

That's partly because most household heads who were receiving food stamps were also out of work. Just 21.8% of them had jobs in 2010, while 19.8% were jobless and looking for work.

More than half of household heads who received food stamps, 51.1%, weren't in the labor force and weren't searching for work. Labor-force dropouts have been a particular concern for economists, who worry their lost potential damages economic output. Those who drop out of the work force often turn to other government programs, such as Social Security disability, which is costly.

On average, food stamp households brought home $731 per month in gross income. Their food assistance averaged $287 a month.

Government dependence, which is defined as the percentage of persons receiving one or more federal benefit payments, is at a staggering 47%, its highest level in American history, while 21 million households are reliant on food stamps. In fact, government spending on food stamps in 2010 ($68 billion) was double what it was in 2007, with the 2011 figure likely to be even higher.

According to the August employment report from the Department of Labor, the nation's unemployment rate remained at 9.1% with a total of zero jobs added to the economy during the month. Among demographic groups, Latinos had an unemployment rate of 11.3%, while African-Americans posted a rate of 16.7%. For blacks, that represents the highest unemployment rate for this group since 1984 and a rate more than double that of whites (8%).

When Obama took office in January 2009, the nation's unemployment rate stood at 7.8%, a rate higher than the historic norm, yet far below the current rate, and above any rate during the Bush administration. Since June 2009, six months into Obama's term, the nation's unemployment rate has been at or above 9% during 25 of 27 consecutive months.

Those are the official unemployment rates. The real unemployment rate, as it is sometimes referred to, rose to a seasonally adjusted 16.2% in August. That rate, as defined by the U.S. Department of Labor, includes those in the official unemployment rate plus those who have given up looking for a job and those who are working part-time but wish to work full-time. This figure is now at its highest rate since August 2010 and represents about one out of every six potential American workers now without a job.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 7:53 PM

And your point OM? Nice cut and paste job. The least you do is provide the source. A link maybe? I hope it isn't copyrighted, because that's a violation of board rules.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 9:31 PM

CJW, I guess I need a sarcasm font.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 9:32 PM

Breaking ranks with OM and buckshot CJW? They seem to have zero respect for his logic.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, Jun 4, 2012, at 9:36 PM

Obama or Romney, the "mandate" is still there.

http://news.yahoo.com/long-lost-emails-s...

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 8:47 AM

A statistical correlation of 10% tells you that only 10% of the result can be explained. When Presidential political decisions are compared to economic ups and downs, there is only a 10% correlation. That says that only 10% of the changes in the economy can be reasonably attached to decisions of the President. 10% correlation flies in the face of what we read on here and hear on political pundit radio. They would make you think that the President is the main puppeteer to the economy. They pull the string and we react. Well, evidence does not back that up. Evidence shows that consumer demand/expenditure is the number one ingredient.

Obama ,nor any other President, does not really affect the unemployment rate all that much. His decisions may move the number .1% or so. However, that is not nearly enough to satisfy most Americans. .1% is trivial in the eyes of most Americans. The latest recession would have been just as severe no matter who was in office. Decisions made by the President take years to take shape and come to full fruition. The blame should spread equally across. There are alot of small but influential pieces to the puzzle that need reforming not just a new President.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 8:57 AM

I've been saying that demand drives things, but no one seems to want to hear that. Number one reason cited by small businesses as to why they aren't hiring or expanding is lack of demand, not taxes or regulations, as some would lead us to believe.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 9:22 AM

TWILL........you must be a moderate repub THANKYOU SOME OF US HAVE BEEN SAYING WHAT YOU SAID FOR MONTHS.Just because you said it again doesnt mean they will hear it any better.OUR dear SENATOR MC CONNAL said it all... and from that point on there could be no meangfull governess.The entire congress and senate where engaged in Presidental politics and nothing else and that is both sides.The American people are the pawns in and idealogical power struggle that does not serve us.

SAYING we need to spread the wealth around ( which we do) DOES NOT DEFINE A SOCIALIST AGAENDA.Health care for all is not a socialist agenda.ANY BODY WHO HAS A HEALTH ISSUE will probally die poor and non productive.The cost are out of hand and not realistic totally what the traffic will bare.

How long do we think we can continue were americans are buying things but the people who are selling things do not reinvest in the the people who are buying.....how much can you take out without putting back????? NOBODY IS ARGUING FREE MARKETS BUT THEY ARE NOT WITHOUT LIMITS.WE are at a point were we are selling our very land for to make money.That makes no sense to me,We are selling america rather than invest in her it.s like what bain capital does to company's on a larger scale.WE are a nation not a business.ROMMENY is no SAVIOR NOR IS HE A FRIEND......his money is elsewere and I find that telling you can say what you want.yOU WANT TO BE PRESIDENT BUT YOU DONT TRUST THE NATION YOU WANT TO LEAD TO HAVE YOUR MONEY THERE DRUG DEALERS HAVE MORE ALLEGIANCE.

GOT to go I could go on a tear.......later

-- Posted by lamont on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 10:20 AM

Any idea how many tourist there are in San Francisco at any one time? How many come from counties that don't speak English? Granted, there is a problem with the lack of assimilation, but you have once again taken one situation and and used it to justify using a broad brush when talking about immigrants.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 1:50 PM

I would not call it progress Buckshot.....CONSIDER THIS....WE DO THE SAME THING. The fact that there is no insistence that english be spoken is the problem.AS and isolated country unlike europe there is a need for a universal language within our borders,aND THAT IN MY OPINION SHOULD BE ENGLISH.IT is not about honor because we dont honor other peoples language and culture in there country's we want them to change. I speak thai and japenese I FOUND MY LIFE EASIER BY SPEAKING THERE LANGUAGE I DISLIKED GERMANY( poletics) SO I NEVER LEARNED THE LANGUAGE WELL.JUST ENOUGH TO TRAVEL AND BUY THINGS.

The regulation creep of the EPA is not new,they like the rest of the bearucracy never remove regs that are no longer applicable they just create new ones that are sopposed to superced which never seems to happen the 800 number is political spin.This administration is no more or less guilty than the others.The stimulus was designed to stabilize not create and it did what it was sopposed to do.I would think we will have and upsurge as the housing market stabilizes and start rebounding.That will not fully happen for several years as people are not going to buy and sell houses until they payoff the devastation of today.

YOU can attempt to place the constitution into a literal way of living but it's not a reality.The government protects the people....from back when it was written .......the land barons.......today the corporations.GIVE us a rise in workers pay relative to profits,a decline in cost of products,and allegiance to the nation from the corporations that originate here and the same honoring of AMERICA WE WANT FROM EVERYONE AND WE WILL GET BACK TO VALUES.

The key for me is this is not new and therfore I cannot lay all this at this administration door step.They may have promised to fix it but that was wishfull thinking.To many have there hand in the cookie jar they dont want it fixed,they want it just like it is so they can be comfortable and you and I can keep trying to make the dream come true.........later

-- Posted by lamont on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 2:42 PM

No money=no demand. Pretty simple. If you can't purchase something...then "demand" (as we know it) lacks. Credit, which many needed/required to "get by" and "float" things, is gone. Demand is there---money/finance (and a means to pay for such things...LIKE JOBS) is not. Big difference Roy. People still "need" things but an inability to pay for such things with cash is a huge problem. No jobs. Lower wages (if you have a job). Disaster.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 3:33 PM

Glad to see ya back Buckshot and Zook. I was feeling kind of alone---CJW is quiet too.

Buckshot, I thought maybe you had gone missing and that they got ya. Was waiting for the headline. Glad you are well.

Funny how we can reason away our rights with nothing more than a few words. We need to wise up. Things are pretty bad out here with little sign of improvement. Nearly 1/2 the population on assistance and needing food stamps or both. Unemployment way higher than 16.2% if one was to consider those that have no more unemployment available or could not get it (for any number of reasons).

When you look at the hard numbers, more jobs have been lost than "gained". The jobs that have "come back" are not really "new" jobs they are just the jobs the "stimulus sucking" dirt bags decided were needed back at less pay/more hours (with less people). Very little in the way of jobs has been "created" but why look at the hard numbers. Rose colored glasses are much better to view the world from these days...or MsM's bottle of rum. Your choice. Hard days ahead as the economy fails in other places. We have yet to see the bottom.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 3:52 PM

I hear ya Zook. I hear ya.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 4:07 PM

I HAVE NO CRYSTALL BALL ON HOUSING....however there has been and upswing in construction and sales.....A depressed housing market aids the carpetbaggers.....and rips you off.I did construction and 7-8 yrs ago Steve Carr and I had a conversation about the cost of materials rising out of control.If your house was built in the last ten yrs you paid more percentage wise for it than one built 20 yrs before from a materials stand point.YOU PAID TOO MUCH........ you can bet you will see that value continue to fall before it rises again and it will never get back to what you are on the hook for.IF you are lucky you are not upside down.I know I have lost about 60 thousand .14 thou from last yr on one and 10 thou on another.....that is not chump change.

AGAIN THE BAILOUT OF GM and CHRYSLER HAD TO DO WITH STABLIZING,NATIONAL DEFENSE,AND THE IMPACT OF THE LOSE OF THOSE SPINOFF JOBS.Some not all of those dealerships were reinstated,SOME WERE TAKEN OVER BY OTHER COMPANY;S NOT A LARGE AMOUNT OF DEALERSHIPS WENT AWAY.

There was no super majority.......if there was, the fillibuster would not have worked.SOME of your points are without dought valid I dont see anything as being without fault,but you cant fix anything if you dont look at how you got there.

I DONT SEE HOW WE COULD HAVE STAYED OUT OF A DEPRESSION A DEEP ONE AND CUT A TRILLION FROM THE BUDGET EXCEPT TO STOP ALL FORGIEN AID wHICH I am in favor of.I dont like feeding others when we are hungry.

I will disagree on this.....there are people out there which very unrealistically think he unlike other presedents should make everything he said happen......how does that work??? ANYHOW WE ARE PRETTY MUCH ON THE SAME TRACK JUST HOW WE EXSPRESS IT.......LATER

-- Posted by lamont on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 5:20 PM

Mike, Obama's pledge was to cut the DEFICIT in half. Didn't happen. That's a fact. We were bleeding jobs at the rate of 750,000 a month. That's a fact. Things were a whole lot worse than he was lead to believe. That would seem to be the case. The worlds largest economies tanked, that's a fact. World wide recession struck. Had GM gone completely bankrupt, most of it's suppliers would have also. Those suppliers also supplied Ford. Say goodbye Ford. The big Wall Street Banks? Everybody got to see what happened when Lehman Bros. was allowed to fail. Not an option. Of course the "Official" unemployment numbers are low. Run out of unemployment or give up and you're not counted. Own your own business and you fail, you're not counted. Under-employed, not not enough to get unemployment, you're not counted.

There are problems with some of the benefit programs, that's a fact. We are spending money on foreign aid we can't afford, that's a fact. Career civil servants getting loose with our money, nothing new there. Ever try and fire a civil servant?

The only half way sane thing about this whole mess is that most of the debt that has been run up is owned by us, not the Chinese.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 5:50 PM

You just keep believing all that buckshot. Don't forget that it was Bush who took us from surplus to deficit with his unpaid for tax cuts, his unfunded wars, his unfunded Medicare Part D.

A surplus! We were actually paying down the debt, not making it bigger!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 8:16 PM

BUCKSHOT....IT WOULD MAKE NO DIFFERENCE WHAT THIS PRESIDENT DID IT WOULD BE WRONG. NOT BECAUSE IT IS OR WAS BUT BECAUSE HE IS A LIBERAL IN YOUR EYES.......ISNT that the lynch mob mentality you railed about before???I for one can say he has been wrong on some things but not everything.AS you claim some try to alibi him you do the same for BUSH.SOME objectivity would go a long way in the conversation.........later

-- Posted by lamont on Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 8:36 PM

If someone thinks a liberal is going to get us to a point in history where we have money in the bank they have not been following politics for very long.Tax and spend is alive and well and we are broke. We are going in the wrong direction. Maybe a guy like Walker for president.This devisive president has us so far off course and we are still heading for the iceberg.

-- Posted by skeeter on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, at 6:05 AM

BUCKSHOTT......SEEING HOW YOU JUST CAME ON THIS BLOG THIS YR....HOW ARE WE TO KNOW WHAT YOU STOOD FOR IN THE PAST......SO CALMN DOWN AND TALK TO ME DECENTLY AND WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION.YOU COMMENT ABOUT CONCOCTING WAS NOT CALLED FOR.I didnt fabricate anything.Ill say it again I am not here writting a term paper.Your research is questionable as it always seems to be from some ultra right wing source,that;s ok if that is the only side you want to hear .HOW EVER IF YOU WANT A MORE REALISTIC APPROACH YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH BOTH SIDES AND THEN FORM YOUR OWN OPINION OUT OF WHAT HAS BEEN SAID.Some of the things you post as fact are from someone elses not whole truth.

ZOOK.....I disagree I THINK A ROMNEY WIN WILL OPEN THE FLOOD GATES TO THE DESTRUCTION OF MIDDLE CLASS AMERICA.I think we should look at how the middle class got to be middle class.I think we could look at Idaho and question right to work laws that allowed wages to be depressed but prices the same as the rest of the nation.We dont have a large middle class here.MOST people come and live here for a lifstyle not to make money I know that is why I live here.WE make less but pay the same for goods and services.The friends I have here in business are not complaining about regulation or taxes they are complaining about the cost of wholesale goods and it's cost being prohibitive to making a profit.That being based on what people can afford here.I am not making anymore playing music today than I did 40 yrs ago,WHY? BECAUSE the places that hire profit margins havnt changed. The middle class ....you and I......ARE BEING GOUGED.WE are at a point that after you pay your bills there is nothing left and that is the way they want it.ROMNEY WILL NOT HELP YOU AND I OR THE PEOPLE.........CORPORATIONS YES PEOPLE NO!!!! THAT IS MY THOUGHTS..

-- Posted by lamont on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, at 6:39 AM

OK BUCKSHOT.....TELL US WHAT WILL NOT DIVIDE THIS NATION ALONG ECONOMIC LINES,THAT ROMNEY WILL DO??

NOBODY railed on you I made a statement.There are two mind sets in the economic world the fact that you dont subscribe to the one being used now doesnt make it wrong IT could be wrong for the situation at hand.WE tried the other under bush it didnt work either so I would think someone would use the best of both but we shall see.The fact that it takes 3-4 yrs for any policy to take hold is the reason I can remain pessimistic.

I think in the long run a lot of people will get hurt under WALKER .I saw a lot of people get hurt here under right to work.SOME trades never recovered,and joe blow little guy is still getting hurt.....OUR GOVENOR is not and angel and neither is our legislature we have some folks who should not be there and folks who are covering for them.I dont like the good ol boys at mine and your exspense and that is what I see with ROMNEY and I could be wrong.We pretty much only have TWO classes now.HE HAD PLENTY OF HELP ON THE HOLE.

YES I CONSIDER YOU HARD RIGHT....I think IF you went back and read your blogs you would too.I really dont care.... I am only into actions think what you want that's your business.When your thoughts start questioning my allegiance without just cause I get upset TRY AND REMEMBER MOST HERE ARE AMERICANS FIRST.YOU DO NOT HAVE A MONOPLY ON IT.TO ME PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY DO ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM BECAUSE IT AUTOMATICALLY EXCLUDES EVERYONE ELSE.WE ALL WANT WHATS BEST.

-- Posted by lamont on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, at 8:02 AM

Fire em all. There is not one that is any better than the other. Pretty sad statement. Worse yet, there is not even a "real" choice for President---they both stink.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, at 8:12 AM

Buckshot,

The specific area that I mentioned, Sun Valley, does not have all that many Black people. The Blacks, which are quite numerous, live in downtown near the casinos. Sun Valley, is about 60% white and roughly 40% Hispanic. Of those that are Hispanic, a quick estimate by the State is that very few of them are illegal or less than 5%. The labor market just does not have the excess demand for which to drive that.

I bring it up because as soon as two people on here read about state assistance, they always have to bring up the illegal immigration issue. In short, stating that only illegals are going to be on state assistance. That they are the only problem. Being lazy and living off the state is a problem no matter the race. Lazy and ungrateful knows no racial boundaries. Can you understand that or are you going to be antagonistic as usual?

If you actually bother to analyze the situation and know what you are talking about, one would see that in Sun Valley race tells you nothing about the problem. There is an inordinate number of people collecting food stamps in this region due in some part to poor housing market, poor job market, and welfare being the path of least resistance. Sun Valley is our version of Garden City. When someone mentions poverty-stricken areas such as these, they immediately presume that it must be because of illegals. Well, that is just plain ignorant.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, at 9:10 AM

As far as government creating jobs, my implied point is that they have no influence and Americans sort of know it already. Being that we already know that we are being hoodwinked, why continue the charade? Why empower politicians in such a way? By laying the responsibility of "fixing" our economic woes on them even though they have marginal influence (if any at all), we are setting ourselves up for disappoint. Of course, they are going to fail to meet our expectations. Politicians represent the peanut gallery in the big economic picture. They are going to fail and yet they are going to keep up the promises and the American public is going to continue to gobble it up.

Government's only role in the economic realm is to build and enforce a fair, equitable legal environment for which it can operate smoothly. The mechanisms and constraints of government make it impractical for it to accomplish what most Americans want it to do. Is that clear enough?

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, at 9:26 AM

Buckshot,

In my 3+ years on this blog (not continuous however), every time I mention welfare Zook and usually one other always has to jump in about illegals. No, I am not going to mine every thread I have posted in to back this up. It would be time consuming and somewhat impossible. I do not care if you believe it or not.

Second, it is the government's responsibility to create and enforce laws. Am I not correct?

Did you even bother to read the last paragraph of the second post or are you too busy trying to argue or one-up me? Seriously. By them sticking to their prescribed duties (making and enforcing laws) and NOT meddling in the economy, how is that any different from what you said? Again, are you just trying to be combative? If so, just say it. Let's not beat around the bush.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, at 10:03 AM

"This, however, does NOT change or alter the fact that we cannot keep doling out entitlements they way we've been doing it. Real cuts are coming, whether you like it or not."

You know that if you would bother thinking critically and actually reading my posts, you would not be sounding so ignorant right now. I will lay it out and then you can not play stupid like usual.

Yes, I was raised poor. We were on state assistance for about one month during that time. As my mother tells me, it was when I was about 6 months old or so. Nevertheless, it did not last long. Second, I have been homeless and been quite poor at other times. In short, I have been there and done that. I am not just someone from the peanut gallery chirping away and telling others how to be.

I fully support cutting welfare programs and here is why. I have been at the bottom of the barrel and figured my own way out. In my adult years, I have never used state assistance in any way. With zero help from the state, I have fixed my own economic woes. Therefore, If I can do it I am venturing to say that most other healthy adults can do the same. Lastly, society is lacking (IMO) a certain sense of self-reliance or independence and accountability. By always giving the path of least resistance, these values will never become engrained.

I have never made the assertion that I am not for cutting these programs. Strawman on your part as well. Fox smells it own hole first.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, at 10:14 AM

ZOOK .....you know and I know ETHONAL did not start with this president stop it......AND NONE OF THE THINGS YOU MENTIONED STOPED UNDER THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION EITHER........TO BUSY GOING TO WAR........WHICH by the way we are just now getting the bills for......anyhow i dont want to go in this tit for tat garbage........TAKE a look at our congress and senate that is where the problem is......and it is not partisan. ON TO SOLUTIONS.........LATER

-- Posted by lamont on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, at 11:19 AM

In America, we have this bizaare quality about us. The public actually believes that political decisions (stimulus, policies, etc.) produce immediate, quantifiable, 100% observable results. Politicians just dream this stuff up, put a signature on paper, and the results will come in predictable fashion. Yeah, what a load.

for example, the ARRA of 2009. If government actions were predictable, observable, and impactful then why has the result been exactly as promised. It has yielded some positive results but nothing even close to what they said it would be. Another example, the $600 rebates during the times of Bush. Did it yield exactly the results promised? No, not even close. It is not a matter of successful execution. No matter whose named is attached to it, it is always to fall well below expectations. Therefore, lets entertain the idea that instead of relying on politicians to fix our problems, why not fix them ourselves?

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, at 1:39 PM

Anyways, I am going to be away from this for a week or so. So if i do not respond, just be patient. Enjoy the week fellow posters.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, at 1:48 PM

AMEN !!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by lamont on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, at 2:30 PM

Mike, first you complain about executive orders, then you complain because he doesn't use them more. Which is it? Line item veto, you oppose it, but the only alternative is to veto these bundled bills that have many needed items in them because of a few wasteful items. If he vetoed every bill with the things you have listed, the government would come to a screeching halt. That includes YOUR retirement checks. Both sides have a long history of tucking manure into vital bills which is why nothing is really getting done today. All the "jobs" bills sent to the Senate? Each and every one has some nasty piece of manure in it that has ZERO to do with JOBS! That's why they have died.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, Jun 7, 2012, at 5:49 AM

HEY......1 ST NOBODY IS BEMOANING the person who works hard and gets and education,nobody has ever got onto someone for that,and the greed being talked about is not some small time corp.What is being talked about is profit at all cost including your job.This thing about union goons ,this is not the 1920-50's I might also add that like it or not the unions were instrumental in creating the middle class.I think you just saw how money is corrupting the rights of you and I in WIS.every state that this has happened in they have lost jobs a lot of them.I dont see jobs as being a priority I do see control of people and an ideaology that says you will do it our way or we will beat you down.YOU WANT A FREE FOR ALL YOUR GOING TO GET IT.THE REASON WE CAN TALK THE TRASH IS BECAUSE WE HAVE WHAT WE HAVE.

I dont think there is a problem with nasty rich people who play by the rules.....but how about those that pollute your water,food,cut down your tree's,pollute your beaches,use dangerous chemicals in our construction materials etc.DO THEY GET A PASS AS WE PICK UP THE COST OF THERE MAKING A PROFIT.YOU know about that and so do I zook IT'S CALLED AGENT ORANGE.A FREE FOR ALL WILL ALLOW THAT UNCHECKED WITH NO RECOURSE they will say sorry about that and keep on moving,they wont even bury you.I will say government is to redundant admitted but to say we dont need one that does what it does I do have a problem there.

our NEW MENBERS OF CONGRESS SWORE THEY WERE GOING TO CREATE JOBS.....HELLO !!!!! DOING WHAT ? POLICING ABORTION,AND CONTRACEPTIVE.....MAYBE THEY OUGHT TO GET THERE MIND OF THERE SEX ORGANS AND GET BACK TO PLAYING THE TUNE CALLED LEGISLATE.

.........LATER

-- Posted by lamont on Thu, Jun 7, 2012, at 8:38 AM

Mike, where did you get the idea I supported union goons? I've already said that unions as structured today have outlived their usefulness. Collective bargaining needs to be preserved though. If you believe that a whole new Congress will stop the manure tucking, you my friend are sadly mistaken. Manure tucking isn't just dollars, it's things like taking spending bills and tucking in policies that would never survive on their own, and you know it. Neither side will ever agree to making rules that restrict bills to just one subject! Too many freaking agendas are at stake. Abortion, gay marriage, planned parenthood, just to name a few.

Even if the Republicans were to get 51 votes in the Senate, the Democrats would just employ the same tactics the Republicans have been using to block bills they don't like. Consensus is dead! Individual agendas rule!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, Jun 7, 2012, at 10:04 AM

YOU......ARE RIGHT ROY.....THAT WILL BE PAYBACK FOR THE LAST 2YRS AND IT NEVER STOPS....Problem we pay the price.I have friends who are moving to other country's rather than live under the republican agenda,I wish it were a joke but it's not.They have the American dream ,money retirement etc,they dont like there idealogy,They all wore uniforms for 20+ YRS.DARN shame.I KNOW THERE SERIOUS BECAUSE THERE SELLING THERE HOUSES AND ALL THERE POSSESSIONS,COUPLE HAVE ALREADY LEFT.I have been reading about south africa, very very tempting money wise. Well got to run ck you later.

-- Posted by lamont on Thu, Jun 7, 2012, at 11:58 AM

I'll be off to Costa Rica or Belize in a couple of years.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, Jun 7, 2012, at 12:15 PM

Mike, I guess you missed the part about the main reason businesses aren't hiring. It's called lack of demand. People aren't working, banks aren't lending to those that are. The bottom line is that the consumer drives this economy, and the consumer is BROKE. Taxes and regulations do play a part, but they aren't reason number one. Go around Mtn. Home and ask the small business owners why they aren't hiring.

Speaking of railroads, do you know how much land they were given by the government to build those rail lines?? How rich they became from the sale of those lands? No government help? I don't think so!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, Jun 7, 2012, at 1:37 PM

Strange, that's not what a majority of small to medium business owners say.

There is nothing wrong with honest profit. Profit at any cost is morally wrong!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, Jun 7, 2012, at 5:53 PM

CJW........get in touch with what the example signify's.......a sense of despair.Those guys deserve better.MY money would let me live a life we dream of here......I didnt say that was what I wanted to do.I DIDNT SAY THAT WAS WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO,THEY FELT CHEATED AND MOST STATE THAT THEY DONT WANT TO BE SUBJECTED TO A RIGHT WING AGENDA,AND ATTITUDE.I think they served to be able to make that choice.

-- Posted by lamont on Thu, Jun 7, 2012, at 8:27 PM

LEFT unhampered we will be enslaved we are pretty much there right now.When you are forced to live hand to mouth daily you are a slave.IT should not take 2.5 jobs for a family to live decently not frivolous but decently.That my friends is going away fast ......do the math even for the state of idaho.....average wage 26,000.00 for a male that doesnt cover it,ADD moma at 20,000.00 and it still doesnt get it.THAT IS HAND TO MOUTH AND DONT GET SICK BECAUSE IF YOU DO YOU WILL LOSE IT ALL.I remember when we worked a 2nd job to get ahead now we work it to make ends meet........suppression of wages some more and no way to change that and your at the mercy of ???????????? just a matter of time...........later

-- Posted by lamont on Thu, Jun 7, 2012, at 8:38 PM

Yes, America was an "industrial power" at one time but there is more to that story than some want to admit. To sum it up, Americans want high, stable wages but low prices for the output. Those two concepts counteract one another and something had to give. Also, not to start a S___-storm but unions are not off the hook.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Thu, Jun 7, 2012, at 8:41 PM

Mike, I just read what you wrote and you are totally wrong!

"EVERY ONE of us knows that if we spend more than we take in.......it won't be long until we're out on the street.......doesn't matter if you're a Democrat, Republican or Independent-------you can't spend what you don't have-----and stay afloat."

That statement is very untrue.

I found that if you just raise your debt ceiling, you can buy whatever you want! And if your wife doesn't want you to raise the debt ceiling, threaten her! Psssssss.... just between you and I, Obama has found that military pay and social security are the best threats to get the debt ceiling raised.

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Thu, Jun 7, 2012, at 11:43 PM

Lamont, I hate to break it to ya but, those wages you mentioned, they're not too bad. Obviously, with me being a miltary spouse, I'm not always working right away when we get stationed at a new base. My wife and I are able to make it just fine. We have a nice house, horses, 2 fairly new cars, plenty of food in the fridge..... All on ,what was, a SrAirmans pay, which you know is NOT a lot :) The thing is, we didn't ask the banks to get this stuff for us. We got it when we were able to.

Now a days, people are only slaves if they allow themselves to be. You don't have to borrow from the banks. You don't have owe on a car, house, or boat. That's a choice!

It reminds me of when I lived in the projects. There would be neighbors complaining all the time about how they wish they could get up out of the projects. Then they'd jump up in their low rider with the hydrolics and the jam system and drive down the road.

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 12:00 AM

KT.....HOW MANY KIDS DO YOU HAVE??? I like mike never have lived high on the hog.I have never owned a showroom to my house new car never and yes like you I PAID AS I WENT FOUND NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.What I am saying is you cant compare you being a military spouse with a civilian....just your health care alone changes the equation.The average middle of the road health insuranc for a family of 4 is 1,200 a month.AND EVEN AT THAT YOUR DEDUCTABLES WILL EAT YOU ALIVE IF YOU GET REAL SICK.

BUCKSHOT......I dont know anybody that likes being victimized or enslaved do you??? I do think you believe that doesnt happen. I do know people who are not smart enough to know when it's HAPPENEING.There are people right here in mtn home that would fit that bill.

KT your sr airmans pay is so far beyond what ZOOK and I got at that rank it is not even worth talking about .HOW DOES ABOUT $90 A MONTH GRAB YOU.BEFORE TAXES AND YOUR WIFES ALLOTMENT WHICH WAS HALF.YOU GET MORE IN QTRS ALLOWANCE THAN I GOT AS AND E-8.THERE is no comparison I will tell you this the PAY you recieve is unsustanable in the long term for a viable military.Something has got to give.

I found something that goes on to be quite the scam....there are things you need to do that cant be done without a credit card.Why is that ?? YOU CANT PAY FOR IT CASH YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CREDIT CARD.I find that to be a scam,No you dont have to owe on a house,car,boat etc .BUT YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE A PLACE TO LIVE ETC.what I am saying is add it up without bias the basics of life,rent,food,meds etc and see what you get and use average cost.What we can do with 45-50 thou here wont get you 1/4 that in say new york.WHEN MY MOTHER AND FATHER BOUGHT OUR HOUSE IN n.y they paid 28,000.00 we sold it for 1,400,000.00 a WHILE back my son just sold his house in a depressed mkt there for 1,600.000.00.THINK OF THE PAYMENTS ON THAT.A 2 BDRM APPT WILL RENT FOR 1,600.00 A MONTH AVERAGE.I wouldnt own a car back there for anything not worth the hassle. ANYHOW YOU MAKE THE CHOICE TO LIVE THERE AND THEN YOU TRAP YOURSELF BY BEING THERE.WE enjoy a freedom here that I dont think we fully appreciate but that's me.

And that has nothing to do with national socialism and everything to do with survival.HEALTH CARE is unsustainable as it is administered today.IT is nice to make the illegals scapgoates in that argument however they are not the main cause of cost so we need to fix it NOW........

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 8:54 AM

I find it laughable that anyone with half a brain can say that this administration is the most corrupt ever. All administrations lie. They all promise more than they can produce. They all engage in backroom deals. They all do and they always have. Have you ever considered the possibility that it is simply because we live in an age of instantly available information. Hmmm...

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 9:04 AM

Zook,

You really should stop assuming that you know anything about me. I am 35 and have worked many years in the manual labor force, been homeless, etc. So keep on assuming and keep being wrong.

I have an equally low opinion of them all. No one gets a free pass in my book. Politicians are all liars and crooks in my estimation. I do not care about the party or the name. Is that simple enough for you?

In the Nixon era, did we have CSPAN or the internet? Answer with a yes or no. Even in the Clinton era, did we have nearly the number of TV stations, websites, blogs, journals, or radio pundits of today. Again, just answer with a yes or no.

Those administrations were corrupt. They lied. They promised too much. They had shady deals. The only difference is the media scrutiny. The intense media scrutiny and instant information are not a bad thing. A hot steaming pile is a hot steaming pile no matter how many people see it or hear about it.

How about you actually take a graduate economics course and stop trying to tell me that I am indoctrinated? Or are you going to continue to be the peanut gallery who really knows next to nothing about it. I am sure you are going to reply with your usual self-righteous line. Here's an idea, unless you have substantial evidence to back up your assertion and not just opinion/gossip, be man enough to acknowledge that. I have never served in the military and have freely admitted on dozens of occasions that I do not know the inner workings of it. With that being said, i do not get on my pulpit and lecture anyone on what they should have done.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 10:18 AM

And yet ANOTHER........."They've ALL done it in the past", eh Twil?

So that somehow "justifies" it to continue.

YOU haven't been on this earth all that long, "Mr College".

No, it does not justify it. I am simply saying that there is nothing unique about Obama. He is just yet another crooked politician in a long line of others. He is just another product of the establishment. If Romney is elected, he will be more of the same. Promises unfulfilled, gutless pandering to special interests, slick speeches, and dodging direct questions. Again, I have an equally low opinion of them all. The problem starts at home in America. We elect them. They are a reflection of us. If we really want change, it has to start at home. We know that we are being hoodwinked by these slick salesmen and yet we continue to be outraged.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 10:25 AM

There is book smart and street smart. The street smarts, in many ways will come from life experiences and events. IMHO, there are a great many very educated people that are as dumb as a mud fence. Just because you are educated---does not make you "smart." My grandparents were not very educated but both had good jobs and were very smart. They both knew things that were not taught in school but were learned for life. Book smarts and common sense do not go hand in hand for all people.

This is a general comment and not directed at any one person or group. Some of the best life lessons are learned with time. Trial and error...not everything comes from a book.

Some of the smartest people in this country never went to college or went to college but never obtained a degree. Just because someone is not college educated does not make them less of a person. Life experience counts for alot in my book.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 11:05 AM

Obama states that in 27 months 4.3 million jobs have been "created." Well, how many have been lost. If 12 million jobs have been lost (just a number) then there really are not any jobs that have been "created." With a record number of people on assistance and all of the other things going on in this world, I fail to see where things have improved for anybody but CEO's.

And the best part of Obama's steaming pile was when he denied that his admin had leaked classified info. Yes, they are all guilty of being scum bags---but at least they do not bow to another leader and say they are sorry for "their" people. And let us not forget the open mic comment/promise. We can make excuses for all of this or see it for what it is. Excuses and lack of accountability are really old right about now. Or perhaps disgusting fits it.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 11:13 AM

OM,

Have I ever claimed to be an Obama supporter? Not yet nor ever will.

Here is one example of how Americans have failed themselves? Do we like bluntly honest people who give it to you in black and white fashion? No. When I worked for Apple as a technical support agent, I regularly received negative feedback because I would tell the customer in plain language what was going on. I did not make promises that I could not keep nor glorified anything. Customers do not like being told that when you run over your computer, it is their fault.

Translate this to politics. When was the last time that we elected someone that was not a salesman? Not in my lifetime (or since the early 80's). If a candidate was to tell the honest truth and not make any excuses for it, they would be lucky to get .01% of the vote. Then who gets elected? Slick salesmen who promise the world and are mostly former lawyers who know how to bend words. The people apparently want to be sold and are the ones who elect them.

About the economy, expect things to get worse in the next year. Isolated numbers and metrics may say otherwise but when viewed in the aggregate, things are going to get worse. With it, is going to come more excuses, whining, and precious little critical thinking.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 11:31 AM

Buckshot,

Did you even bother to read the post? Probably not. So, I slam Obama and yet you cannot see it. Did the powers of reading comprehension fail you again?

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 11:36 AM

ARE some here so far removed from reality that you dont understand people get victimized every day.If you are powerless to fight back you get victimized and not by choice.IF the threat is I WILL THROW YOU IN TO THE STREET AND YOU HAVE NO PLACE TO GO YOU JUST GOT VICTIMIZED.IF YOU HAVE A JOB AND NO PROSPECTS OF ANOTHER RIGHT THIS MINUTE AND YOU HAVE MEDICINE TO PAY FOR AND THE BOSS KNOWS IT, YOU JUST GOT ENSLAVED.CHOICE YES REALITY.....YES. Everything is a choice if you feel you have a choice some dont.I dont think there seeking pity I think there in up to there necks.EVERYONE DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE THINGS WE DO.CHECK OUT SOME OF THE PLACES IN THE WOODS OF KENTUCKY,WEST VIRGINA,APPALACHIA THAT IS SOME SERIOUS POVERTY,VICTIMIZATION AND ENSLAVEMENT.

TWILL....THANKYOU.....but it will fall on deaf ears it is easier to scapegoat than deal with reality concerning this president.I guess he was sopposed to change it all with the wave of a hand.He is a product of the same corrupt political system that has been in place for years no better no worse.The difference is he is not one of them what ever that is.There is the rule to be the same as you have to be better than.HECK OF A STANDARD......I would think that all the mocking of people here would stop but it hasnt makes some feel good.You would think your education would be embraced and gleaned for information, instead the constant attempts to demean you for it is amazing.Your patience is to be commended and your a conservative. AGAIN THANKYOU......HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 11:42 AM

the smartest person that I will ever meet was a drug-addicted kid from the trailer park. The young man could read a book one day and have perfect recall of it six months later. I later found out that he did not even graduate high school.

Later on, in my first year of college I met another young man who had a 4.0 GPA and was majoring in Math. I watched him one night have a battle with a burrito. He could not figure out how to heat up a burrito in the microwave. I thought it was a joke or that I was on Candid Camera. In the end, he gave up and ate it cold.

Basically, school is not about being smart. Going to college is about dedication. Having a degree does not mean that you are smart, brilliant, or anything else. It just means that you are willing to put forth the effort and time needed.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 11:43 AM

Buckshot,

One last comment for the day. So, how is Obama not just another crooked politician? If he is singular among the many politicians of past and present, let's hear why? Tell us all how he is the only one who made promises that could not keep, made backroom deals, bowed to the pressure of special interests, and made the deficit worse.

Yes, he has failed. However, I feel that most Americans knew that he would. They knew that he was just another member of the establishment.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 12:30 PM

Twil:

I never said you were an Obama supporter or not an Obama supporter. From your posts it would seem you think they are all a bunch of dirt bags---same opinion as many of us out here. None really worth a vote.

-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 12:46 PM

PATHS have nothing to do with access,I didnt say anything about throw your hands up.Anything that you can control makes you make a choice if you cant control anything about it you usually dont have a choice.VICTIM mentality your a trip....you have no idea what some people do on a daily basis just to live and it's not by choice.FOR some it starts when they wake in the morning.Personally I have always been succesfull and I know how to be in whatever I do....I dont care what PRAGER said the society that leaves people behind invariably LEAVES itself.WE may be born the same but that is not equality in AMERICA.FROM THAT POINT ON WE START PLAYING GAMES.WE would like to think not but the classe cast system is alive and well. YOU JUST EXSPOUNDED ON IT ."WHO SAID THEY SHOULD"DONT TRY TO TYPE CLASSE ME TYPE CLASSE YOURSELF WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE??? YOU seem to think for some reason you can talk to me and others from your paternalistic point of view ....why dont you stop that garbage. Again and uncalled for comment in the conversation designed to antagonize it gets old.

The garbage starts before the kid even gets to kindergarden.Society try's to program and usually to a point does.I personally have a thing about the word THEY especially when dealing with things that go on I dont like that word, be specific.IT is and overhead accusation that has no merit but it shows how people are programed.Unequal treatment goes to the heart of fairness THERE ONE IN THE SAME AT LEAST THATS WHAT YOU ARE LEAD TO BELIEVE IN AMERICA.I think that some believe that when some others are succesfull that they didnt do it on there own.OR are incapable of doing it on there own so they question how they got there because that wasnt sopposed to happen.THAT kind of thinking is what keeps us as a nation from comming together........Some of us are succesfull despite the roadblocks and the institutions that where designed to hamper that success.SOME paths are not chosen you are born to them, doesnt mean you have to stay on it but sometimes you have no choice.

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 3:01 PM

ZOOK......I am not arguing that you dont have choices, we do, we all do no problem some have more than others. HERMAN CAIN YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ ON HIS BACKGROUND.COLIN A HARD DRIVING NEVER SAY DIE WHO STARTED OUT AT CCNY.YOU NEED TO READ HIS BIOGRAPHY.Everyone who applied themselves did not succed and I understand that what I dont buy into is when road blocks are purposly erected.

Anyhow we both moved on and made choices I dont have any animosity to the wealthy.BEEN THERE DONE THAT WHAT I can tell you is that the tax laws favor the people who can use them and have assests to provide loopholes galore I know I use them.

I created jobs and payed all the taxes and ssi,workman comp,unemployment etc.point being the taxes are there yes, but so are the loopholes that get them to zero or to 10-15% middle class do not get those options.SO close the loopholes based on the profits as shown there not hurting and for them to say they are is disengenuos.They are not creating jobs in the numbers needed but they are creating jobs.Maybe if they paid the ceo less they might could hire more which would put more people to work, money into circulation and that might help with demand and therefore we get to moving.I created my own business so I didnt get a job created by somone else I created jobs.I still hire on ocassion.It bothers me that some think that we should act like we have always had 100% employment And every school in America was open to anyone who had the grades and wanted to attend.Those are fantasy's, we have all come a long way, but the journey is not over.....to bad we see a person before we see them.......later.

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 4:55 PM

NOBODY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BEING ANGRY AT RICH PEOPLE,AT LEAST I DIDNT.....I said they have the assests to be able to take advantage of the tax codes and they do.CLOSE THE LOOPHOLES that is what I said.IT is not comforting to say dont meddle in peoples lives when freedom of choiCE AND contraceptive denial is a priority to the right.I call that meddling in peoples lives.But that is me.

I didnt call Prager radical you did I disagree with a part of what he said.I could agree for different reasons mr Prager comes on as if it's ok to discriminate.His conclusions could be right for all the wrong reasons.PLEASE do not accuse me of something I didnt do.

I post to you in a neutral way you seem to always interject something snide and antagonistic usually with a disparging remark. EXAMPLE...IF YOU WERNT SO STUPID.....I dont call you stupid,ignorant or anything else SO DONT TELL ME ABOUT RESPECT and I CERTAINLY DONT ATTEMPT AT EVERY POINT TO BE PATERNALISTIC. YOU dont know if you can change my opinion,you wont the way it is offered and yours is not the only one that counts.THERE are right wing people here who dont bother me at all they present there opinions and sometimes I agree,I DO NOT CALL EVERYONE HERE RADICAL RIGHT WINGERS I DID NOT PUT EVERYONE IN THE SAME BOX.I have never stated I " I hate right wingers" UNLIKE YOU " I HATE ALL LIBERALS"I am not prejudging. You are the only one I have to work at not prejudging your comments.I really like to hear it all it MAKES FOR THOUGHT PROVOKING DECISIONS AND ANALYSIS AND SOMETIMES I HAVE TO CHANGE A POSITION BUT I CANT DO THAT IF I DONT HEAR IT ALL.YOU TAINT YOUR POSITION BEFORE IT'S SAID.FOR YOUR INFORMATION MOST people who really know me know I am neither far left nor far right I tend to deal with the issues at hand without the insults until insulted.SO DONT CALL ME A LIBERAL ILL TELL YOU WHEN I AM A LIBERAL OR ANYTHING ELSE.

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 7:45 PM

WE KNOW ALREADY.........SMILE!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by lamont on Fri, Jun 8, 2012, at 11:09 PM

And I am a social liberal and proud of it! I do not believe government has any right to dictate whether two consenting adults can enter into a marriage contract with all of it privileges. Those who advocate less government in our lives and propose to amend the Constitution to ban same sex marriage are frauds and liars! That is the most intrusive form of government in our lives. When it comes to abortion, that is between a woman and her God when that time comes. It's none of our business! When it comes to money, there is only a certain amount coming in. Where we spend it is critical. We have citizens going hungry and living on the streets, too many citizens have no access to even minimal health care except the emergency room, which is a huge waste of resources, our roads and bridges and roads are falling apart, our national power grid is a sorry joke, true broadband access in this country that is technology driven is a joke, but we have the largest military budget in the WORLD! Guess where I believe the dollars should be spent. Tax dollars put into the hands of the private sector with rules regarding wages and profit margins is a win-win situation. No open ended contracts. No no-bid contracts. NO FOREIGN LABOR ALLOWED!

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 9:12 AM

I AGREE WITH YOU ROY......everything you said.At this point in time I do not see private sector solutions.They have had time to start doing there thing and there sitting on there hands wanting consumers to spend money they dont have before they do anything,and they have money.Making money doesnt solve all the problems in my book.

JUST so you know I think the military budget is out of wack also.The return to pre iraq levels is a good thing rearm and retool we cannot afford the numbers of people at the cost per.Even the generals have said it.DONT KNOW WHY THE RIGHT DOESNT GET IT.PULL our horns in and mind our own business.

BUCKSHOT....I exsplained to you what you do and you know what you do and yes you do direct garbage at me.IT usually starts off with a disparging remark.And yes you come off racist with the president and you know that also.HE can take his lumps with the best of them critercise construtively no problem with racist overtones and yes I have a problem.I have not blindly defend the presidentI HAVE HAD MY PROBLEMS WITH HIM ALSO AND I HAVE SAID SO.....WHAT YOU WANT IS A HARDLINE PUT DOWN SORRY DIDNT DO THAT WITH ANY PRESIDENT AND I AM NOT GOING TO CHANGE NOW,IT'S CALLED RESPECT FOR THE OFFICE.(OLD SCHOOL)I TEND TO THINK ABOUT WHY AND HOW THINGS HAPPEN AND THERE IMPLICATIONS MAYBE THAT IS THE WAY I GET INSIGHT.Certainly things are not so cut and dried as to believe that it didnt happen the way I think it should I SHOULD START FINDING FAULT.I BELIEVE I dont know all the facts so therfore there must be a reason,I may not like the reason but usually there is one. Everything this president does is not wrong but you want to believe it is because he is a liberal.Again isnt that the lynch mob mentality you admonished so well??Paternalistic is as if you are talking to your children NO BODY HERE IS YOUR CHILD.I dont care about your opinion it's yours it's you presentation,"IF YOU WERNT SO STUPID""YOU MORONS""DECENT FOLK"ETC SO SAY WHAT YOU WANT AND YES THERE ARE PEOPLE HERE WHO KNOW HOW TO PUT UP THERE OBJECTIONS AND DO IT VERY WELL AND WE HAVE SOME GOOD CONVERSATIONS.iPUT UP MINE AND WE GO FOR IT AND IT DOESNT GET TO NAME CALLING.

ZOOK BELEIVE IT OR NOT I AM DOING EAGLE FUN DAYS......7-11 PM .....BRRRRRRRRRRR GOOD THING THERE PAYING WELL......LATER.

-- Posted by lamont on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 12:02 PM

Buckshot, I've never mentioned light bulbs, gasoline, or any of the other things you mentioned. Where do you get your ideas as to what I support? Funny though, no comment period on the rest of my post. Once again you assume, and you know what that makes of you.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 12:54 PM

By the way, just what right does the government have in the bedroom or doctors office. I'd love to hear your thoughts if you dare.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 12:55 PM

If government has no right in the doctor's office I guess Obama care is out the window.

-- Posted by skeeter on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 2:48 PM

Mike, since when did I become a Democrat??

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 3:44 PM

Skeeter, I've said more than once the Reid-Pelosi bill sucked. The original idea was affordable care for all, not what we got.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 3:46 PM

I know Roy, but government involvement usually leads to things costing more, not making things cost less.

I wonder if any studies have ever been done showing how much health care costs have risen because of government policies?

-- Posted by skeeter on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 6:24 PM

Not sure Skeeter, but I can tell you this, due to the very low reimbursement rates by Medicare/Medicaid, providers have had to raise their rates to everyone else. There are towns in this country where you may not even find a doctor who takes Medicare/Medicaid.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 7:44 PM

Then you agree government doesn't have the right to ban same sex marriage or abortion?

Ah, forgot Article 10 did we Buckshot? You know, that pesky part about interstate commerce?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 7:48 PM

If the government doesn't have the right to ban same sex marriage and abortion they don't have the right to make same sex marriage and abortion a law?

-- Posted by skeeter on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 8:13 PM

Sorry about the article number, but you knew what I meant.

Skeeter, all things have to be considered legal unless declared legal.

Still no answer from you Buckshot on same sex marriage and abortion. A simple yes or no will suffice. Do I need to re-state my question?

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 8:21 PM

Trying to weasel out of the question are we???

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 8:24 PM

After all, you are the one who made the declarations about what governments proper job is.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 8:26 PM

Sorry but, I have to chime in on this...... A dude kissing another hairy dude is just nasty. And I pray to God that any sane court, judge, minister, preacher, justice of the peace, govt, and so on, will not give those two hairy dudes the same respect in marriage that a man and a women have. Yuck yuck yuck.

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 8:29 PM

KT, you are entitled to your opinion, but not a theocracy.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 8:34 PM

I ain't gonna lie, I had to look that word up :) Your right, Roy, just my opinion but, you also have to admit that it goes against the laws of nature. I have a brother who is gay. It ain't like I hate him or anything. I just think that the fact that he can look at another hairy dude and think, "yum" is disgusting. On a good note, I don't have to worry about them two reproducing and bringing up a kid in that enviroment. Unless they adopt. Which would be a good topic for a blog.

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 8:54 PM

It just might be since my new neighbors are gay and raising 3 very well adjusted girls. 2 parents beats one any day.

Nature doesn't govern our country.

Mike, personal opinions shouldn't be used to discriminate.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 9:40 PM

KT Did your brother wake up one day and say "hey I think I want to be gay"?

Zook who do you think pays for our animal shelter?

I've never heard of the government paying for abortions. Ever!

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 9:53 PM

I have no idea what he thought, MsM. All I know is he there is a perversion in his head that isn't right. Men shouldn't have sex with men and the same for women. Square pegs don't fit in... well you know where I'm going..... And just because a person may or may not be born like this doesn't make it right. I'm sure a pedophile didn't wake up one day and say, "hey, I think I'll be a pedophile." Does that make it right?

-- Posted by KentuckyTransplant on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 10:14 PM

What if he was born that way? What if its an imbalance of the brain? I can't imagine anyone who would want to be gay. I know I wouldn't want to be gay......

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Sat, Jun 9, 2012, at 10:24 PM

Well, seems like we are well on our way to a theocracy, just like the Muslims. Using religion in politics is just as wrong for us as it is them.

Interesting term collective conscience. Sounds like a theocracy in the making.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Jun 10, 2012, at 10:12 AM

BUCKSHOT..... DID IT AGAIN "one born of complete stupidty" YOUR NOT WORTH TRYING TO TALK TO ......YOUR CHARACTER???..... IS THAT THE ONE WHERE WITH REASONABLE CONVERSATION YOU THROW OUT THE REMARKS ......YOU DOG WHISTLE THE RACIST REHETORIC ALL THE TIME....so enough of you if you got anything racial out of EVERY POST THAT IS BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT.....NICE TRY..........Ill leave it at that weak minded trying to be forcefull you didnt hear a word said......dont like being called on your crap.....go insult those that think your something your not.....they will probally appreciate it more.....you tried to call them to rescue you, wasnt that enough?????tHE LONE RANGER RIDES AGAIN.......

ZOOK ......I have never tried with gloves on have to give that some thought...laugh...GOOD GIG HE HEATED THE PATIO.GREAT place the food was outstanding......IT'S called MICKEY RAY'S......it was BBQ WITH CLASSE and he can cook was good stuff.The place itself is really nice not what you would expect at a BBQ place......SO it's in eagle on state street,,,,it's worth stopping for if your down that way.

-- Posted by lamont on Sun, Jun 10, 2012, at 11:03 AM

Buckshot, you really need to read some of what Mike writes concerning making things personal. Your name calling is tiresome.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, Jun 10, 2012, at 4:19 PM

Cowards hide behind anonymous screen names. Everybody knows mine, Mike's, Lamont's, and MsM's.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, Jun 11, 2012, at 11:52 AM

Guess I better post with my real name so I'm not a coward if that's all it takes.

-- Posted by skeeter on Mon, Jun 11, 2012, at 2:07 PM

LAMONT IS A REAL NAME AND IT IS MINE.....AMAZING THE PROJECTION.........DEAF DUMB AND STUPID AND NEEDED HELP. TALK ABOUT GENTELNESS I GUESS IF YOUR NOT CURSING ,INSULTING,NAME CALLING,BELLITTLING,MOCKING SOME ONE YOU CONSIDER LIBERAL YOU ARE NOT A CONSERVATIVE.Intresting thought.I see brenda removed my previous response and that's ok because got a pretty good idea were that is comming from also.I guess the conservatives here get to name call and ridicule with impunity so carry on she will get a chance to remove some more I am sure.POLITICAL BIGOTRY IS STILL BIGOTRY AND UN CIVIL PEOPLE ARE STILL.....

-- Posted by lamont on Mon, Jun 11, 2012, at 3:20 PM

Looks like one jerk needs to go back and fix the brief that was put on their blog (ROY). Let me help you with this sentence for which you have been doing alot of lately.

I don't engage in or tolerate name calling. Name calling reduces an adult discussion to grade school play yard level.

You are one of the biggest problems making comments like name calling, insults, and telling others they only post half truths and lie's which leaves you to think your 100 % correct on everything and you are far from, just no better than others To call people a coward because they use an ID instead of their real name is really none of your business and it DOESN'T MAKE THEM COWARDS EITHER.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by Eagle_eye on Mon, Jun 11, 2012, at 3:25 PM

If you like your freedom and your individual rights, ie. the Bill of Rights, thank a Liberal.

Those of you who live in the "now" and think you'll be better off supporting the uber-rich NGOs,had better regroup and take a basic U.S. history class.

I won't tell you what to think...that's your job. History doesn't choose sides...just the facts. It's up to you to interpret them.

-- Posted by junkyard dog on Mon, Jun 11, 2012, at 5:09 PM

Joe, I'm sick and tired of Buckshot's name calling aimed at me. I truly wonder what the people he goes to church with would think of his behavior here.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Mon, Jun 11, 2012, at 5:15 PM

Buckshot, does this exchange look familiar? Who started the name calling?

Well Kieth, you and I agree! I have been called cold hearted and other things for advocating limits on what people can and can not buy with a SNAP card.

Buckshot, as usual you comment has ZIP to do with the topic of the blog. Same for you OM, but it's Kieth's blog. Just my opinion on your behavior.

I would also like to remind those that have forgotten, that I am 100% in favor of the LDS model for social aid. If you don't know what that model is, ask around.

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, May 15, 2012, at 6:19 AM

Once again, Pratt...

This is a blog and, as such, there are no right or wrong responses. What is wired in your DNA that forces you to make a snide comment with every post you make? It's getting really old, Pratt. How about you make your comments and I'll make mine? I don't need approval by you for a darn thing in my life, certainly not any comment I make on a blog. Who do you think you are? Once again, that bloated, egotistical opinion of yourself comes shining through.

And my point was under Obama, food stamps have increased dramatically, with more people on them than ever before. It IS a valid point regardless of what you say. You need to get over yourself, Pratt, stop trying to pick a fight with every comment.

Maybe, if you can't help yourself but to be a nasty, bitter, old man, you should stick to your OWN blog?

-- Posted by Buckshot61 on Tue, May 15, 2012, at 6:42 AM

-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Jun 12, 2012, at 3:06 PM

back to the topic,

I will first use an analogy and then proceed. You will see. Imagine a sea lion. It is affected by water temperature, salinity, wind, humans, other sea life, water currents, and so on. I am going to assume it is a passive item and therefore it reacts to the environment in predictable fashion. One school of thought is that regardless of how the conditions change, the sea lion is going to act the same so best just to leave it alone. Another school of thought is that we can encourage this creature to act in optimal fashion but changing the conditions. This idea that we can shape the behavior of this creature by changing what affects it. An indirect mechanism of sorts.

Conservatives represent the first school of thought and Liberals the second. the fundamental difference comes down to whether someone believes that humans will do what they do regardless of the conditions or whether we should try to engineer a social optimum. This second scenario assumes that we are not acting/behaving optimally and are in need of improving.

If the sea lion is impervious to the elements (or roughly) then no amount of tinkering with the conditions is going to get it to behave optimally. Or in politics, no amount of expenditures or legislation is going to change the end result hence the need for less government.

I was in So Cal last week and found that this assumption underlied a lot of what they were doing. To want to fix it, you have to assume it is broken. To stay with the theme of this thread, we are assuming that the person will change their ways if we give them money and therefore change the conditions (back to the sea lion). I am not so sure that really is the case. what about the rest of you?

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Mon, Jun 18, 2012, at 5:11 PM

Zook,

I could post that 2+2=4 and you would give us all a tirade about patriotism or some other unrelated stuff. You could not stay on topic if your life depended on it. The theme of this thread is welfare or income redistribution. If you do not believe that, then feel free to read the first post. My post dealt with that topic and that topic only. So if you have something to add on to that, feel free. However, that is not going to be the case is it?

The governmental structure is not the point. It goes beyond that. Back to something more fundamental. Can you understand that? We are not far apart on this.

I guess I should restate it. No matter how well-intentioned or well executed it is, income redistribution is largely ineffective. Drawing from my time on the street and 23 years in the trailer park, i find that humans will be what they want to be regardless of how much money will redistribute to them. A poor person is going to be the same whether he is left to his own devices or we give him welfare. An assumption behind the Liberal mindset is that if we improve their conditions the poor will learn to be productive and therefore not need the welfare anymore. Furthermore, they will be so productive that they will repay any assistance that they were given. My experiences say that this is not the case. At the most fundamental level (before we decide laws/rules/govt structure), playing Robin Hood just does not work.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Tue, Jun 19, 2012, at 10:48 AM

Again, I refer back to my time on the street.

While on the street for a month, I consorted with a group of about 30. They were largely young and able-bodied. I noticed early on that they had access to resources. This access came by way of the LDS church. The trick was sitting through enough sermons and making them think that they were converting you. They furnished my fellow bums with food, clothes, and access to jobs (which they never took).

The liberal argument to poverty is that if you give resources to someone that they will rise up out of their more primitive mindset and start on the path of being a productive citizen. They assume that everybody is enterprising, motivated, and willing to do what it takes. The only obstacle is resources such as money, food, shelter, and so on. Supply those and the flower should bloom (figuratively). So, then why when these people were given more than enough to accomplish those goals did they revert back to the street? It would have taken some time but they could have been off the street within days or weeks and yet they chose not to. Hmmmm... Shoveling more at them would not have changed anything. The charity was private in this case but there are many other examples where the charity was public and the result is largely the same. They are poor largely because of their own choices and their inherent ways. Ways that do not change when you give them money.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Tue, Jun 19, 2012, at 1:54 PM

Drugs, Alcohol, mental illness come to mind. They also have to have an address to get any help from the Government..

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Tue, Jun 19, 2012, at 3:57 PM

MsM,

If they would have taken full advantage of the services offered by the churches/shelters, they would have had an address. They knew this and still chose to live on the street.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Tue, Jun 19, 2012, at 4:01 PM

You never know what goes through their minds, maybe distrust of the church?

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Tue, Jun 19, 2012, at 5:29 PM

" Live Free or Die" New Hampshire's motto. When I lived in New Hampshire it was on the license plates and in 1971 someone took the state to court over this and they lost.

-- Posted by MsMarylin on Tue, Jun 19, 2012, at 6:27 PM

Buckshot,

You are missing my point. It is not about freedom or control at all. I aim to poke holes in that implied assumption behind the liberal mindset regarding poverty. No matter how fair or unfair their policies and ways are, they are fighting a losing battle. I do not know how else to say this other than I am writing/criticizing the mindset behind the action.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Tue, Jun 19, 2012, at 6:40 PM

Not to monopolize the board but keep in mind that I am only talking about poverty/welfare/entitlements and income redistribution.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Tue, Jun 19, 2012, at 6:47 PM

Buckshot,

I worked with some ultra-Liberal people once. I got to know them quite well. Their intentions were solid. In their eyes, the issue was systemic. These poor people had been dealt a bad deck of cards and the system just kept perpetuating it. They were not aiming to control anybody. They simply felt that the government was the most effective way of fixing this systemic issue. On the surface, it sounds great. Helping out the less fortunate and bringing up the rear therefore making us stronger as a collective.

I have no issue with them feeling that they want to "fix" the issue. Seeing someone on the street or a single mother struggling along with 3 kids can tug at the heart strings. That is a very natural sentiment to have.

However, with this fixing the issue comes certain assumptions. They may not say them aloud but they form the foundation of why they do and why they think it will work. One, is that the issue is systemic and not individual. Every individual is enterprising, motivated, and will act optimally if only given the chance. I have seen otherwise.

Two, poverty is an externality and one in which the public would pay more indirectly by letting it persist versus the current redistributive mechanism. There is some merit to that but public housing/section 8 tends to lead to defacto segregation. That is exactly what they do not want.

So to connect this and other posts. The Liberal feels that we should help out those on the lower end and that we can by indirect means. The issue to them is systemic. On the other hand, a modern Conservative feels that the issue is personal. They simply did not make the right choices. It is not a lack of compassion on their part. The system may not be perfect but no amount of help is going to get someone to be more productive. People are what they are and throwing money at them is not going to change that.

OK, I will quit with this one. I think that I have beat this dead horse enoough.

-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, Jun 20, 2012, at 8:54 AM


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Originally from Kentucky. 38 yrs. old Air Force spouse.
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