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Thoughts from an old progressive
Roy Pratt

Newt or Mitt?

Posted Tuesday, December 6, 2011, at 6:05 AM
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  • Well Mike, no matter who is elected, unless spending is cut 1+ Trillion a year or revenues increase, or a combination of the two, the debt will continue to grow year to year.

    -- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 7:23 AM
  • No argument from me my friend.

    -- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 8:53 AM
  • NO MIKE IT'S NOT.......YOU SEE THE DEPT WAS RUNNING THROUGH THE CEILING BEFORE THIS ADMINISTRATION ......HE JUST GOT TO PAY THE BILLS BUT OF COURSE THE ONLY WAY TO PAY IT IS TO DONT FEED THE MASSES ,KILL AS MANY AS YOU CAN,ENTER ANOTHER WAR SO WE CAN GIVE HALLIBURTON SOME MORE FREE MONEY,KILL OFF AS MANY VETERANS AS YOU CAN TO GET ENTITLEMENTS DOWN ,HOCK SSI,CUT MEDICARE , TRICARE AND MEDICADE, AND JUST TO MAKE THINGS GREAT AND BE SURE THIS DOESNT HAPPEN AGAIN CUT EDUCATION BECAUSE IF THEY CANT READ OR COMPRHEND THEN THEY WONT KNOW WHATS HAPPENING TO THEM.........IN THE MEAN TIME LETS HAVE LUNCH IN THE BAHOMAS ,WHILE THE WIFE HAS LIPOSUCTION AND THE NANNY WATCH'S THE KIDS. IT'S ALL GOOD WHO CARES ABOUT THAT 90%. WE CAN CREATE SOME MORE......JOBS?????? are you kidding?? I get a tax break and you want a job. YOU ARE JOKING RIGHT ??????

    HOW ABOUT A SOLUTION THAT CUTS AND RAISES REVENUE THE SAME AS YOU WOULD HAVE TO DO AT YOUR HOUSE IF YOU HAD A PROBLEM ALL THIS ONE SIDED HARPING. PUT THE BLAME WERE IT BELONGS .......IF YOU JUST HAVE TO BLAME SOME ONE. HOW LONG DID YOU THINK THE BOOM WAS GOING TO GO ON??????????

    UNCLE GEORGE didnt have any problem spending to include giving away money, whats the problem......oh I know the president is a democrat.there the only ones who spend.....right.......speaking of back rooms I thought vice PRES UNCLE DICK fixed ENERGY in the back room.( QUITE WE DONT MAKE BACK ROOM DEALS)OH YEAH HE ONLY GAVE AWAY HALF THE FARM THEY WERE SOPPOSED TO STEAL THE REST.HEY UNCLE GEORGE DONT YOU KNOW YOU DONT LOCKUP BORDER AGENTS THAT's THE DEMOCRATES JOB, YOUR MAKING US LOOK BAD.WHEN is NORTH going to die?HE'S A GOOD GUY TOOK ONE FOR THE GIPPER......AINT NO LT COL GOT THAT KINDA POWER.......MADE HIM FEEL GOOD THOUGH

    By the way we have a great proposal instead of poor kids learning lets let them clean the toilets for us.....now that is a great way to get the deficet down.besides it will give them a work ethic,there parents work 2 jobs but there not getting the message......well that should solve it for awhile back to the golf course....hey wait for me !!!!!!!!!! who's that ?????

    -- Posted by lamont on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 9:22 AM
  • The Republicans need to throw all the candidates out of the game and start over......They don't have anyone and voters keep jumping from one to the other.......

    My guess it will be Mitt and that's who the pollsters have always said from the get go that it will be Mitt!

    -- Posted by MsMarylin on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 9:27 AM
  • Lamont, you seem to want to ignite a fire that is already going.

    Your extra spark just states what we already know. Our elected officials cannot be trusted to handle our affairs.

    It is the present problem that we are trying to address. We know where the point of ignition started, how do we put the fire out?

    Obviously we can't with the present administration, because they are bound and determined to just point the finger of blame instead of grabbing a shovel and helping start a fire line. And that goes for all the rest of them too regardless of party lines.

    The present adminstration, the congress and others who are sucking this country dry of its freedoms and assets need to hear what we are all saying and DO something besides run for office.

    -- Posted by KH Gal on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 9:32 AM
  • NO PROBLEM THERE KH GAL.......I JUST GET TIRED OF THE ONE SIDED RANTS.....IM WITH YOU LETS GET IT ON .....ALL OF THEM HAVE ABDUCATED THERE RESPONSIBILTIES TO US SO TIME FOR THEM TO GO.

    THERE HAS BEEN MORE THAN BLAME BUT WHEN THERE IS NO COMPROMISE ANYWHERE THEN IT'S TIME FOR BOTH SIDES TO CALL IT A DAY......I THINK YOU AND I COULD DO A BETTER JOB........HAVE A GREAT DAY

    -- Posted by lamont on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 11:42 AM
  • I am not sure how one-sided it can be when a majority of one party is presently in office. Zook has commented on just about everybody and has stated repeatedly to fire them all. Which to me is not one-sided.

    Right now, I think the Dog-Catcher has more common sense about balancing budgets and cutting spending than our elected officials. If we all voice our opinion about how displeased that we are and they ignore us, what is our recourse?

    You have to admit that is is wrong when one party in power tells the other that they have to sign something that is financially disasterous for the entire country. Or ANY of our elected officials refuse to listen to Our Concerns and do anything about it.

    The world has gone mad and the ones getting the most attention these days are camped out in parks and parking lots. Those of us with a voice of reason seem to be a minority.

    When you take away their job security in Washington, then they will listen. And that is what we have to do in the voting booth.

    -- Posted by KH Gal on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 3:12 PM
  • JUST SAW A POLL......health care works and it has not cost a dime.Problem is we dont like to be told to do something even if it is in our best interest.Also insurance co dont like it because they dont get to play with YOUR MONEY,they dont make mega millions.....to bad....ANYHOW THE POLL 50% LIKE IT.....39% DONT........11% DONT KNOW.I KNOW that polls are influenced by how the question is asked.

    ALL DUE RESPECT KH GAL........those people have a voice also just because they are not wearing suits and ties doesnt make there message any less VALID.......as the saying goes......DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY IT'S COVER.

    Wore a uniform for 28yrs so they could have a voice. I dont have to like what they say or how just that they can........

    -- Posted by lamont on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 5:33 PM
  • BUCKSHOT..... I WILL BE TRUTHFULL WITH YOU ....IF I WERE OBAMA I WOULD DO THE SAME....ANYONE WANTS TO KNOW THAT BAD GO ASK THE PROFESSORS,TEACHERS,DOCTORS,LAWYERS ETC......YOU SEE WHAT IS OK FOR SOME IN THIS COUNTRY IS NOT OK FOR OTHERS.BASED ON THE POTSHOTS AT THIS MAN NO DOUGHT I WOULD DO THE SAME.

    You see if I AM STRONG AND FORTH WRIGHT....IN SOME CICRLES THAT EQUATES TO IM ARROGANT.....IN THE CASE OF THE FIRST LADY....UPPITY.

    IT'S LIKE REIDS COMMENT HE DOESNT TALK LIKE A BLACK MAN.....EXSCUSE ME WHAT AM I SOPPOSED TO TALK LIKE???????? I know that one personally I have had it happen to me.I could go on but it would only make sense to me.I CAN TELL YOU THIS IT WAS INSULTING.ANYHOW I SAY YOU WANT TO KNOW LOOK...........I SAY THEY ARE LOOKING TO DEGRADE.......THAT IS MY OPINION.

    -- Posted by lamont on Tue, Dec 6, 2011, at 7:59 PM
  • OH AND NEWT JUST INSULTED EVERY POOR PERSON AND THERE CHILDREN IN THIS COUNTRY.I would call that stereo typical demonizing and degradation .How dare him.Seeing how you seem to think BUCKSHOT that the left only does that as you implied on the other blog,what would you call this.????I might call it busness as usuall.BECAUSE IT CERTAINLY IS NOT TRUE,KINDA LIKE THE PRES MAKING THE COMMENT ABOUT GUNS AND BIBLES,IT'S ON THE SAME LEVEL........LATTER

    -- Posted by lamont on Wed, Dec 7, 2011, at 8:58 AM
  • Not true Buckshot61 I found the answer on snopes

    No, that rumor came from typically misleading WND articles that reported how much Barack Obama's campaign had paid in legal fees altogether and assumed (without evidence) that all the expenses were related to eligibility documentation issues.

    -- Posted by MsMarylin on Wed, Dec 7, 2011, at 9:37 AM
  • I found it on snopes.com

    Yeah he should of been more open with you Repubs..... what brand of underwear does he wear, what kind of toothpaste does he use, and when he was smoking cigarettes he should of told you what brand they were. How about all of his phone numbers, where he met Michelle, does he eat soul food? and on and on and he still wouldn't please you Republicans because after all your goal is to make him a 1 term President.

    You Repubs have to keep coming up with something negative to get that goal to work but your having a hard time finding the dirt on him, so you knit pick every thing from him crossing his eyes to any goofs he might have while speaking in public.

    One thing he doesn't have is a line of women saying he had an affair with him or he sexually harassed them.

    Lets see take his quotes out of context, tell lies and keep opening up more web sites to make your accusations from.

    Gingrich and Romney is all you have to beat Obama and even some of the Republicans won't vote for either one, especially Gingrich. From what I hear he is very hard to work with.....

    OK show time and the fun begins!

    -- Posted by MsMarylin on Wed, Dec 7, 2011, at 7:02 PM
  • Oh good lord Buckshot. Seriously, have you really read the whole article? The writer of it appears to be a candidate for tin foil hat.

    -- Posted by royincaldwell on Wed, Dec 7, 2011, at 9:08 PM
  • Hey Buckshot61 if you think I'm rude now wait until I have the time to write my blog about the Republican Candidates :)

    You think after Obama's second term all the secrets are going to come out? It sounds like something magical is going to happen.

    Give me a break The Truthtellers ? Would they be the Repubs? HA !

    -- Posted by MsMarylin on Wed, Dec 7, 2011, at 9:59 PM
  • TRUTHTELLERS?????????????are they who you decide they are BUCKSHOT???????? There is a group of people out there who if this man was the product of immaculate conception it would not be enough.

    ANYTHING that anyone wanted to truthfully find out about this man they can.from his birthdate till today it's all there go look,go ask,go research,YOU KNOW AND I KNOW THEY HAVE DONE THAT BUT HE DOESNT FIT THE STEREO TYPE OF WHAT THE PERCEPTION OF WHAT BLACKS ARE ALL ABOUT.If he did they would be talking about it.They said the same things about SEC POWELL ,when are some going to understand we are just as capable,and just as human as they are?????? I am sure his family knew he was going to be president so they took pains to create a false life for him.HE has family go ask,schools etc people he grew up with schoolmates.What they want to find is probally not there if it was they would have been all over it and you know it.BY the way what is it you want to know????????? and why bother if you have preconcieved ideas anyhow.Why dont you ask the same questions of NEWT AND ROMMNEY????????ill be waiting to see what you can tell us.REMEMBER THERE OLDER AND BEEN AROUND LONGER SO THEY SHOULD HAVE A LONG HISTORY FROM CHILDHOOD TILL NOW....

    HAPPY HUNTING

    -- Posted by lamont on Wed, Dec 7, 2011, at 11:51 PM
  • Buckshot61 I think your rude with your last remark. Just because I don't agree with your Republican rhetoric doesn't mean that I am rude or less intelligent then you.

    I am an independent and I know that Obama was given a lot of bad cards to deal with once he stepped into office. The Republicans were on him from the get go. By the time he was in his second month he had been called communist, Hitler, the anti-christ, and much more.

    Zook your right Cains womanizing shouldn't of been headline news however it was public interest to know who we might elect. Lying doesn't cut it with me, and where there's smoke there's usually fire.... He wasn't a serious contender, he would never have gotten to the primary. If he was innocent he wouldn't of bowed out!

    Buckshot I bet he's the one that has something to hide...

    I hope I have time today to write my blog, but business is busy and work is never done...

    -- Posted by MsMarylin on Thu, Dec 8, 2011, at 8:52 AM
  • ZOOK ARE YOU FINISHED....THE SAME TIME AFTER TIME...I DONT THINK I WILL PARTICIPATE,BUCKSHOT....I WILL NOT BOW TO YOUR REHETORIC EITHER, I OFFERED SOME INSIGHT YOU REJECTED AND THAT IS ALL I NEED TO DO.BELIEVE AS YOU WISH.........MOST REALIZE THE RACIST OVERTONES OF NEWT, IT'S OK WITH YOU GUYS THAT'S FINE.FROM CONGRESS CREATING A COMMITTEE TO WE THE LEFT SHOULD ELECT WHO YOU WANT, IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE BOTH OF YOU FEEL THAT ONLY THE REPUBS CAN GOVERN.....WHAT A CROCK........YOU HAVE A PERSON WITH A CRIMINAL PAST RUNNING THE ETHICS COMMITTEE zOOK. BUT HE'S A REPUB SO THAT'S OK,HE IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF CRIMINAL........I SAID IT MS M HAS SAID IT, IT WOULD MAKE NO DIFFERENCE WHAT THIS MAN DOES IT WOULD BE WRONG........HES A DEMOCRAT AND FOR YOU THAT IS ALL THAT COUNTS.

    -- Posted by lamont on Thu, Dec 8, 2011, at 9:37 AM
  • I DIDNT HEAR THE LAST SPEECH I DONT DOTE ON HIS WORDS SO WHY DONT YOU TELL ME WHAT HE OFFENDED YOu WITH?????? what has he done and what is he attempting to do?????? I DONT GIVE PASSES.....YOU TOLD ROY SOME THINGS ABOUT ASSUMING,AND NOT KNOWING YOU, YOU SHOULD TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE....IV GOT ON HIM WHEN CALLED FOR.Seems TO me that we can get to his words BUT people like SPR GINGRICH ,AND RUSH LIMBAUGH GET TO OFFEND AND DEMEAN DAILEY BUT NOT A WORD FROM YOU.hmmmm INTERESTING.SPR GINGRICH flat out lied and not a peep......why.?....I say because what he said makes some on the conservative side feel good and it acts as a confirmation of there thoughts,the fact that it was a lie doesnt make any difference,the fact that he suttely pointed a finger at blacks makes no difference when in fact he insulted every poor person in america.NOT A PEEP........

    ANY COMMENTS ON THE REPUB ATTACK ON VOTER REGISTRATION....voter fraud reason wont get it ,it has remained constant for the last 50+ yrs.01%.DOES THE FACT THAT IT DISENFRANCHISES MINORITYS,THE ELDERLY AND THE YOUNG WHO ATTEND OUT OF STATE COLLEGE HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT?THEY JUST HAPPEN TO VOTE DEMOCRATIC.......NOW I WONDER ABOUT THAT. CARE TO COMMENT???????

    -- Posted by lamont on Thu, Dec 8, 2011, at 8:01 PM
  • Buckshot, do you really believe everything in that link? Here is a quote from that link for those that didn't read the whole thing.

    "An even more pressing question is: How does a person like Obama -- a nobody from nowhere -- come to command such power and money so as to pull this off? Think about what it takes for a presidential candidate, and now sitting president, to have such power.

    The answer can only be that Obama is the front man for something far more sinister. One person, without the strength and backing of a cabal capable of toppling governments and affecting worldwide currencies, etc., could not even consider such an undertaking, much less pull it off.

    Ergo, the logical conclusion must then be that behind Obama there exists a group or organization so powerful and so sinister that they are able not just to influence global policy, but to control it. I repeat for the record, Obama in and of himself cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, singularly demand that every major media outlet ignore investigating that which could potentially make Woodward and Bernstein's investigation into President Nixon pale in comparison.

    Global domination is obviously their goal, but what in Obama's background threatens to derail them if it were exposed? Rumors and suspicions abound pursuant to his citizenship, but if someone has enough power to silence a worldwide press and media, they would certainly have the ability to forge or recreate birth documents.

    Also, Obama didn't go to school in a vacuum. If there were something in his college records or if he had committed a crime or whatever, otherstudents would know it and those persons would have by now leaked same to a credible source or outlet.

    But there is one thing that wouldn't be as accessible to public scrutiny and that is his medical records. If in his background there is evidence of emotional breakdown, susceptibility to breakdown, emotional instability or something similar and it became known, it is the one thing that could derail the objectives of the power behind him.

    I'm not an investigative journalist. I write opinion, and it is my opinion that Obama is but the tip of something much larger, and if same were to become known it would reverberate worldwide. If he isn't, then he should make the requested records available immediately. No other president or leader -- not Castro, not Chavez, not Clinton, not Khrushchev -- has demanded and received the secrecy he has. No one was capable of such a feat until now.

    And you wonder why I think he's a candidate for a tin foil hat?

    -- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, Dec 8, 2011, at 9:19 PM
  • THANKS ROY.......The need some have to believe that kinda of garbage is the danger.YES it is racist and it is a way of saying none of them could be that smart or talented .That is a subtle mentality of a large group of people.IT'S kinda like the lady who's purse is on the counter people come up beside her all the time she doesnt move it, a black guy comes up she moves it to the other side of her happens to me all the time.AND IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE HOW YOUR DRESSED WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE ETC YOU ARE BLACK THAT IS ENOUGH.IF THEY KNEW HOW WE See IT SOME MIGHT CHANGE, BUT MOST DONT CARE, THE PROFILE FITS.....HES BLACK. LIKE a license plate makes you and illegal....go figure.

    I guess I stole the organs I have or someone gave them to me,I COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE WORKED AND PAID FOR THEM.THIS WILL GET YOU....SAILBOAT ,YOU HAVE A SAILBOAT???? what are you doing with a sailboat???????........exscuse me, what do most people do with sailboats?????? I NEVER CEASE TO BE AMAZED.AND WHEN WE GO CAMPING THAT IS A TRIP THAT IS IN A WORLD ALL IT'S OWN.

    ROY WITH PATIENCE MOST OF US LISTEN AND SHAKE OUR HEADS AND WONDER WHEN WILL IT END.THOSE SAME PEOPLE WANT US TO ACCEPT THEM ,BUT THEY DONT WANT TO ACCEPT ME WITHOUT A CAVEATE........SMILE.......SOMEDAYS I JUST HAVE TO LAUGH OUT LOUD.......JESUS SAID IT ON THE CROSS AND THEY STILL ARNT LISTENING........TAKE CARE BROTHER......

    -- Posted by lamont on Fri, Dec 9, 2011, at 11:51 AM
  • Hello there Buckshot61 its me the rude one, I'm back to lay down some more rudeness on you. What is it your wanting to know about Obama? Oh and my opinion you seem to be holding a little bit of a secret yourself!

    -- Posted by MsMarylin on Fri, Dec 9, 2011, at 4:54 PM
  • Actually, Buckshot, your source sounds more like those who make claims about the new world order, the freemasons, one world government, you know what I mean. There are many documents in a persons life that are considered private in the eyes of the law. Just because YOU can't look at them, doesn't always mean someone is hiding something.

    -- Posted by royincaldwell on Fri, Dec 9, 2011, at 5:07 PM
  • BUCKSHOT ....I stated on the 6th an 7th of dec my feelings about him sealing any records he wanted.Didnt you read it?????? I DEFLECTED NOTHING, go from there in progressions and we get to were we are at.

    What Limbaugh says you may not care about,DOES THAT MEAN WE SHOULDNT BRING IT UP,WHEN RELEVENT???? I dont watch the view that doesnt mean you cant bring it up seeing how there audience is national.

    The race card is played by the right just about anytime they talk of this man,kenyan colonial thought,he doesnt talk like a black,he doesnt understand us,uppity,he on vacation hes always on vacation (60 days vrs 180 for BUSH AT THE SAME POINT IN TIME)I could go on but for what?? if you dont understand the underlying verbage why bother....THE BIRTH THING WAS THE CONSUMATE INSULT....GO BACK AND READ RIGHT HERE WHAT I WROTE...... I DONT DUCK.

    THE LAST SENETNCE ROY WROTE APPLIES.....

    -- Posted by lamont on Fri, Dec 9, 2011, at 5:54 PM
  • Beg to differ Buckshot. School records are not public records.

    -- Posted by royincaldwell on Fri, Dec 9, 2011, at 6:23 PM
  • AGREED JYD

    -- Posted by lamont on Fri, Dec 9, 2011, at 7:34 PM
  • Bingo!

    -- Posted by royincaldwell on Fri, Dec 9, 2011, at 7:56 PM
  • MEDICAL RECORDS ARE NOT PUBLIC.......UNLESS YOU ARE A CRIMINAL PURSUANT TO THOSE RECORDS,HIV,MENTAL HEALTH ETC.YOU DONT WANT THEM PUBLIC THEY ARE NOT.yOU KNOW WHATS FUNNY IS BIRTH RECORDS ARE,BUT THEY WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR SOME ......WE WANT TO SEE HIS COPY.....WHAT DOES THAT SAY?????????There are some southern states that couldnt give you a birth certificate on some blacks born before 1940 never mind and original.

    AND so we understand tHE FACT THAT YOU HAVE A SOMEBODY WHO SAYS HE CONCEALED HIS RECORDS DOESNT MAKE IT TRUE.....YOU SEE I TAKE IT THAT ... BOTH THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT LIE AS NEEDED.

    SOUNDS LIKE BUCKSHOT YOU WANT SOME CONSPIRACY THEORY SO THAT YOU CAN RATIONALIZE YOUR HATRED THAT IS WHAT I GET AND I HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO BE WRONG......

    -- Posted by lamont on Fri, Dec 9, 2011, at 8:03 PM
  • Where do you find these records? I would like to take a peek at a few past Presidents records.

    Why was McCain's Birthday Certificate questionable? Was he trying to pass himself off as younger? :)

    -- Posted by MsMarylin on Sat, Dec 10, 2011, at 10:18 AM
  • OPERATIVE WORDS....OFTEN REVEALED.......FINE.HE DIDNT WANT TO. HE DIDNT WANT TO PROBALLY FOR THE REASONS I STATED EARLIER.IF THE USE OF A TELEPROMTER BECAME A MAJOR ISSUE I WONDER WHAT A JAY WALKING TICKET WOULD BRING OR SAY A C IN GOVERNMENT.HAD TO RETAKE A CLASS OR DISCIPLINED FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST SOMETHING. I spoke out in uniform,they gave me a job that allowed that had it been another time i would venture to say i would have been jailed,that doesnt mean I was liked and it sure as heckk made my life diffecult for years.AND THE FACT THAT I WAS OUTSPOKEN COST ME ,I DIDNT CARE BUT IT COST ME,IT was passed on this guy will take it to the wall.CODE WORD ....he's not a team player.....hello....TEAM PLAYERS DONT LET PEOPLE GET SCREWED OVER AND I DIDNT CARE WETHER THEY WERE WHITE/BLACK/GREEN/FEMALE/ETC.........I FEEL WHAT I SAID BEFORE AND BASED ON THE STATEMENTS HERE I FEEL IT EVEN MORE.......BUCKSHOT YOU WANT TO KN OW START DIGGING......THERE ARE SOURCES USE THEM BUT I AM SURE PLENTY HAVE BEEN THERE BEFORE YOU AND IF WHAT YOU WANT IS THERE IT WOULD BE OUT HERE.iNCLUDE THE FIRST LADY AND HER FAMILY IN THAT,AND BE SURE TO DIG IN HAWAII.THE FAMILY IS AND AMERICAN FAMILY ONE WE SHOULD BE PROUD OF TO BE SURE....HAVE A GREAT DAY.

    -- Posted by lamont on Sat, Dec 10, 2011, at 12:39 PM
  • ZOOK....... HAD something to do with the fact that the hospital wasnt physically on the base.ANY HOW IT WAS STUPID TO SAY THE LEAST.FOR me if your going to make the charge do the investigating that is needed.I dont know about you but the rumor mill is so desrtuctive it is unreal.That is why I never said anything about mr cain till after the third female.I hate the rumor mill I saw good people hurt bad because of it I am sure you have too.YOU know I think your daughter might be a dual citezen depends on the status of forces agreement.she might want to check.......have a good one

    -- Posted by lamont on Sun, Dec 11, 2011, at 3:03 PM
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