I think this says it all

But is is up to them when people break laws and sanitation issues are at stake. Or when they begin to impede other law-abiding citizen's rights.

Peaceable demonstrations is one thing. Camping out and creating chaos on a daily basis for months is another.

No one disputes the right to protest. We can and should dispute the license to destroy property or create sanitation nightmares that can and will spread into the other areas of public safety.

Occupy could have said the same things by raising funds for huge public ads in the public newspapers or choosing (1) day a month to keep in the public eye.

And for the people who are financially supporting them, keep in mind that eventually the dog will bite the hand that feeds them. They have attracted many fringe groups that desire other not-so lawful activities.

How do you suppose the riots over in Europe began? Peacefully, I bet. Look at what they are doing now.

Peaceably is the key word. The other things you mention I agree with you. It seems here in this state they are keeping the nuts out. They have been given permission by the state to camp out on state land with strict rules, and they seem to be obeying them. In many ways they remind me of the peaceful anti-war protesters of many years ago.

Not exactly Buckshot. When the protest is peaceful and the protesters are seated, why hit them with a face full of pepper spray? Just who defines what a lawful assembly is? We must be very careful when treading on Constitutional rights.

Forgot something. If the protesters are on private property, the property owner gets to decide whether he or she wants them there. The fly in the ointment is when the protest is on public property.

Once again, I'm talking about peaceful assembly.

Buckshot, sir, exactly who gets to decide when a peaceful assembly on public property becomes an unlawful assembly? Those who disagree? Elected officials? The police? Unelected officials? Who and what they protest is not the question at hand.

Mr. Buckshot sir, this is the first chance to respond. I look at the links you provided and read your comments. I think I need to get a few things cleared up. First off, it appears you believe I support OWS. I have not yet made a statement concerning their cause. I am still evaluating it in relationship to the overall long term good of the Republic. Secondly, I am addressing peaceful assembly. When laws are broken, then police response is warrented and justified. The jpg. I put at the heading of this blog was in response to the pepper spraying of a group of protesters in Davis Ca., on the grounds of a public University who were in no violation of any University rules or local ordinances. The right to free speech and PEACEFUL assembly MUST NOT be tread on! I understand free speech and the libel and slander laws, and that is as it should be, but to declare a peaceful and apparently lawful assembly unlawful because the police disagree with the cause is just flat WRONG!

Just a question, what if it were your cause and the same happened to you?

It appears the question of the peoples use of public property, the power of the city council vs the mayor and the police will be answered soon.

http://news.yahoo.com/la-protesters-defy-eviction-efforts-court-233441524.html

Buckshot, why is it that those involved have been suspended from their jobs over this? The police were not ordered to remove the protesters by their employers (the university), they took this action on their own.

No comment on the quote since it really doesn't apply to UC Davis.

ARNT YOU HAPPY........THE FEW BLAMED FOR THE MANY HOW QUANT.....NOTHING NEW THERE.......ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD......EASY TO IGNORE IF YOU FEEL IT DOESNT APPLY TO YOU.....OH BUT IT DOES IT DOES......BETWEEN THE TWO OCCUPY AND TEA PARTY THEY SAY IT ALL......

I said blaming the many for the few.I am sure the many did not go anywhere with the INTENT of destroying anything.IT is questionable wether the new guys did anything positive for the American people.....so I am not ready to set these people up as some kind of saviors they havnt done that.Represents the tax payers????????? which ones????......CERTAINLY NOT YOU AND I

Buckshot, let's see. Your second post. I have read and heard the story before. I do not support socialism as described in your post. Never have, never will. I will work on a more detailed response when I have the time to as it's time for me to leave for work. I will ask you this. Do you believe a man should be paid a FAIR wage for a days labor that is completed in a satisfactory manner?

Yes, adequate wage for a job well done.

My first job was 1.99 an hour, and I thought that was pretty good. Back then, you could work long hours, so since I was working for a crop duster, when the wind wasn't blowing, we were working. Days on end with cat naps once in awhile.

So many things to take into consideration, but I like the college professors lesson. I wish alot more could learn it

I'm glad there some responses before I got a chance to post more of an answer to Buchshot's comment.

First, without a doubt a refund is due. I believe no one should have to pay a fee to exercise their rights under the Constitution as long as they are peaceful and in a PUBLIC place.

Second, the ones suspended in Davis, Ca. were suspended because their actions were not ordered or authorized by their employer, the University. They took it upon themselves to declare a peaceful assembly on PUBLIC property unlawful. I don't care what dispersal orders they gave prior to spraying, their order was itself unlawful and they should be charged in criminal court! This would be no different than if a group of Tea Party protesters got together in a PUBLIC park to demonstrate and the police came along and told them to disperse. There is NO legal basis for that order, therefore if the police chose to spray them, then the police should be charged.

Third, now on to wages. Your first statement goes to the extreme and could be considered inflammatory, put I didn't take it that way. The market has proved itself when setting wages, that is why there is a minimum wage. Mike's words seem fair. "the wages SHOULD match what the job is worth'.

So I ask you, what would you consider a fair wage for those of us who put our lives on the line everyday we show up for work, trying to protect the work crew and the motoring public? We are more than just the flaggers you see holding their "Popsicle stick" as it was once called on another blog. True, requirements aren't that much to get your card, but then comes the training. My job entails site surveys, contractors meetings, traffic control plans and handling emergency situations. My boss, the owner of the company would love to pay me more. Her customers would like to pay her more for her services but their customers have decided that this aspect of workplace safety isn't worth the extra cost it seems. Executive salaries and bonuses are more important it seems. So, everybody, what is my job worth? Is the market being fair?

On a side note, the states of WA. And Ore. have decided that our work is hazardous enough to warrant its own minimum wage which is almost twice the federal minimum wage that this state recognizes. And no, I don't want to move. I love living here, I would just like to be paid a "fair" wage.

So, any guesses as to my wage? I think Mike knows what I get paid.

WELL ROY I WOULD HAVE TO SAY AT LEAST $15.00 PER HR.That takes in the hazard as proven by the number of you guys that get killed and maimed every year that you humbly havnt talked about.

THE experiment BUCKSHOT used as and example was a good one.But before we can be emperical we have to assume 100% employment and there is no such animal.I dont feel anyone should be penalized for success but I do feel that a ceo making 400 times his employes is out of wack.He is not only taking from the co but the stock holders also that scenario is a loose loose.I am by no means a socialist and have owned and operated several business through the years.And yes he /she is being payed market value that does not make it Right.HOW many could have a job if he made say half that?????????? FOOD FOR THOUGHT......LATTER

http://money.msn.com/investing/latest.aspx?post=0844157f-5e1d-4785-a57a-3fce887e...

AMUZEME.......I WOULD be willing to bet the company is paying his income tax also....so he gets a clean 100 mil because he has NO exspences .....must be nice......I am sure he is crying 72 mil to 13 mil in perks......how many people would that employe ?????? SHARES down 40% and there still ok with it that says a lot.

WE are not on the right track when that is acceptable we are comitting suicide slowly,with a smile.

Thanks for the link.

Good Lord!!!!!

Nice guess lamont, but way short.

wHAT are you saying ROY, I AM NOT SURE WHICH ENTRY YOU ARE RESPONDING TO PLEASE CLARIFY.and enlighten me because i would like to know......smile

Good lord to the link. The next one was about what I make. Do me a favor if you would. Shoot me an e-mail.

roypratt@cableone.net

I was referring to the dishwasher vs CEO statement. You seemed to miss much of the point I was trying to make about wages. In my case it isn't determined by my employer or her employer. They are determined by a large publicly traded company that appears to put their bottom line over the lives and safety of others. let me ask you this, what is your safety worth when you are driving?

On a side note, it would seem that you would agree with former Representative Sali whose response to the last raising of the minimum wage was to propose repealing the laws of gravity. The minimum wage came about for a reason. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a proposal to increase the minimum wage 250%. To throw that in the mix is disingenuous at best. I don't begrudge you what you make. So tell me, what do you think would happen if all the people in my profession decided to take say a week off, maybe more? After all it IS a free market, we stop working and one of two things happen, people die or thousands are put out of work. Those people put out of work stop spending money and then more people are put out of work, and on and on. Over what? A realistic wage.

Think about it.

By the way I hope everyone has noticed that I have let this blog get off track and have even participated. In this case where it has gone is a good issue that should be addressed.

Buckshot, I wasn't referring to just my crew, I'm talking about the whole profession. You know, organize, form a union. You never did answer my question about your safety.

THINGS left after a RAID.....so correct me if i am wrong ....the police swoop in and force you out with no wait time but you should collect everything while they are doing it....i dont think that is a reasonable expectation but they knew it was comming so they should have been prepared.

Sorry about the tire, but picking up garbage isn't in our job description.(Attempt at humor) I wouldn't be so sure about others lining up to take our places, there aren't that many unemployed flaggers, and I know for a fact that there aren't any unemployed Traffic Control Supervisors. (That's Me)

I've seen people drive, if there is only one lane open for traffic, they would end up killing themselves in head on wreaks. I sure hope you aren't one of those who think ROAD CLOSED applies to everyone but you. People get killed that way.

BUCKSHOT I AM NOT DISPUTING YOUR NUMBER OR ANYONES ......I am saying a lot of people camped out leave a lot of trash and when you force them to leave everything but the clothes on there backs you are going to get a lot of trash ......I dont care who it is.

BEFORE you DISCOUNT there impact consider that there numbers are GROWING,and they have called attention to the inequities as they see them to the middle class in this country and that there plight is not getting any better with trickle down economy.RIGHT,WRONG OR INDIFFERENT,THAT IS WHAT THEY HAVE DONE.......SO FAR.THERE NOT STUPID OR DUMB AND IT WOULD BEHOVE SOME TO TAKE THESE FOLKS SERIOUS.JUST BECAUSE THERE IS NO HEAD OR AND ORGANIZATION DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING.IT JUST HASNT HAPPENED YET. IT WILL. ME PERSONALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEA THE TEA PARTY AND THEM UNITE THEN SOME THINGS WILL CHANGE.......MY THOUGHTS ONLY.

AGAIN WE BRING UP INCIDENTS THAT ARE OF THE MINORITY AND VERY FEW WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE BIG PICTURE........IF A GROUP OF PEOPLE SAY 3 THOUSAND CAME TO TOWN AND 5 OUT OF THE GROUP **** ON THE SIDE WALK WOULD YOU SAY THE WHOLE GROUP ****** ON THE SIDEWALK I DONT THINK SO.LT Calley gave us all a bad name we knew it wasnt true did you like being condemned for that fool?????I would think you would understand that kinda mentality.Ill say it again not a well known fact the area in n.y. were this took place is a haven for street people and the homless that is why when you see pictures you only see wall street if they took you down a side street you would puke.I am not making excuses or alibing these are facts.Why are we always looking to marginalize something we dont go along with.I dont like everything the tea party does or thinks but i am not trying to marginalize there concerns.THESE PEOPLES CONCERN SHOULD BE ALL OF OUR CONCERNS JUST LIKE THE TEA PARTY.HANNITY WOULDNT HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IS BEYOUND PARK AVE AND ROCKEFELLER PLAZA....ILL BET HE HASNT RIDDEN A SUBWAY IN YEARS NEVER MIND WALKED ANYWHERE.....QUITE THE PARTY LINE PLEASE YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THAT.

SHOOTING THE MESSENGER WILL NOT STOP THE MESSAGE IT IS RESONATING ALL OVER THE COUNTRY JUST LIKE THE TEA PARTY THEY SHOULD UNITE AND GET SOMETHING DONE....MY THOUGHTS ONLY

OK LETS NOT TAKE AN EXAMPLE AS A REAL NO. I DONT KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE THERE WERE BUT I AM GOING TO SAY THAT I THINK THE 30 TON NUMBER IS EXAGERATED.NOBODY ELSE HAS REPORTED A NUMBER LIKE THAT.nO IT IS NOT THE ACTIONS OF A FEW.THE NUMBER CONCERNING A FEW HAD TO DO WITH THE ACCUSATIONS OF RAPE,DEFECATION,ETC SO YOU HAD THAT BACKWARDS GO BACK and read it again youll see what i mean.....again I will not alibi behavior.But I will not condemn the mass for the actions of a few. Please dont try to twist what i said i was pretty straight forward i thought.

ALL do respect BUCKSHOT....THE IDIOTS in the TEA PARTY HAVNT GOT ANYMORE TO SAY THAN OCCUPY AND THE IDIOTS in the tea party started out as a hodge bodge of people also.When did they graduate from IDIOTS to people?????

Like i said you can shoot the messenger if you want, the message is out there.I do have a question what part of 2 wars played in this and what part of the degradation of the middle class should we consider inconsquensal.THE INCOME GAP IS REAL AND THE WORKERS DID NOT CREATE IT ,AS THE PROFITS ROSE.

700 SUMMONES MAY SOUND LIKE A LOT, IN N.Y. MORE PEOPLE LIVE IN A CITY BLOCK THAN THAT.IF YOU DONT OR NEVER HAVE LIVED IN THAT CITY YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW BIG IT IS.MORE PEOPLE LIVED ON THE BLOCK I GREW UP ON IN BROOKLYN THAN THAT.MY HIGH SCHOOL HAD 10,000 STUDENTS AND TOOK UP I SQUARE BLOCK THE ORIGINAL BUILDING FROM THE 1800'S WAS INSIDE THE OUTER WALLS OF THE SCHOOL IN THE COURT YARD.AND IT WAS 5 STORIES TALL IT LOOKS LIKE A CASTLE.

CLASSE WARFARE let me say this if you have ever been on the recieving end of class warefare you will recognize it if you have not you will never understand it because you have reaped the benifits of it.Classe warfare is alive and well always has been, it is only and issue now because it is taking in a lot more and different people.For me personally, it's recognition says maybe some things will change. One of the greatest things ever was the draft,people who didnt understand some things got a free education as they were thrown in the pot with some people they otherwise would never come in contact with,it fostered EMPATHY and recognition of your human brother/sister.....also made you have a stake in this great country of ours......you couldnt abdicate your responsibilty to the society and let someone else do it.....IN BOOT CAMP EVERYBODY IS AND IDIOT......MY THOUGHTS

ALL do respect BUCKSHOT....THE IDIOTS in the TEA PARTY HAVNT GOT ANYMORE TO SAY THAN OCCUPY AND THE IDIOTS in the tea party started out as a hodge bodge of people also.When did they graduate from IDIOTS to people?????

Like i said you can shoot the messenger if you want, the message is out there.I do have a question what part of 2 wars played in this and what part of the degradation of the middle class should we consider inconsquensal.THE INCOME GAP IS REAL AND THE WORKERS DID NOT CREATE IT ,AS THE PROFITS ROSE.

700 SUMMONES MAY SOUND LIKE A LOT, IN N.Y. MORE PEOPLE LIVE IN A CITY BLOCK THAN THAT.IF YOU DONT OR NEVER HAVE LIVED IN THAT CITY YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW BIG IT IS.MORE PEOPLE LIVED ON THE BLOCK I GREW UP ON IN BROOKLYN THAN THAT.MY HIGH SCHOOL HAD 10,000 STUDENTS AND TOOK UP I SQUARE BLOCK THE ORIGINAL BUILDING FROM THE 1800'S WAS INSIDE THE OUTER WALLS OF THE SCHOOL IN THE COURT YARD.AND IT WAS 5 STORIES TALL IT LOOKS LIKE A CASTLE.

CLASSE WARFARE let me say this if you have ever been on the recieving end of class warefare you will recognize it if you have not you will never understand it because you have reaped the benifits of it.Classe warfare is alive and well always has been, it is only and issue now because it is taking in a

ILL say it again you can shoot the messenger if you want those same people got us out of namm....lets put it this way....you dont like them that is your previledge.i am not looking for things to dislike about them.I had plenty i disliked about the tea party i did not bad mouith them and still dont.all of there people are not and was not saints.They have a message that is what i care about.the tea party has a message that is all i care about.Should these people be judged by the tea party's standard and if so why???? IF YOU DONT THINK PEOPLE ARE LISTENING TO THEM YOU ARE WRONG.that is like saying einstien was stupid because he couldnt put on a matched set of socks.....open your mind and look past the garbage.I looked past a lot of things to listen to the tea party believe me.some of your folks opened some wounds .....latter

YES I AM ON THE UGLY END DOESNT MEAN I WONT LISTEN AND THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING.

I KEEP HEARING THIS SOCIALIST REHETORIC let me say this if we had 100% employment I would be the first to say GET A JOB I still say it because I do believe there is always something to do.Right now that is still true however we dont have a job to offer everyone in this country.....with or without the illeal aliens.Right now in our state there is but one job for every 3 applicants.That leaves a lot of people who want to work in the cold.

The regulation thing,the taxe thing all of those have some validity BUT FOR ME ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS IS THIS OVER POWERING NEED TO BE BIGGER AND MORE PROFITABLE AT THE PEOPLES EXSPENSE.

Example we put robots on the assembly line get rid of thousands of workers in the name of lets make more cheaper ....problem robots dont buy vehicles people do.....I wonder what was lost in sales when that happened,workers tend to be very loyal to manufactiring employers.There is more to this than dismissing it as socialism.WE are not the country we were in the 1950's when we were growing and exspandinmg at a phenomenal rate those days are gone,we have to bring more stability to what we do and that includes how we employ and doing what.A little history here go back and check why the japenese went to war....then think about were we are at.We cannot dismise ideas because they dont suit our ideology.Ideaology like most things have to evolve to remain relevent.YOU know spkr GINGRICH said something yesterday that basically said he was not relevent his head is still back 20yrs those kind of thoughts are not real or relevent to progress.I am NOT willing to discard these people or any peoples ideas because they dont fit my philosphy you can if you want.

I WASNT ALWAYS WERE I AM TODAY,IT ONLY MAKES ME MORE EMPATHETIC......HAVE A GREAT DAY

WHY IS IT THAT CONSERVATIVES FEEL FREE TO ACCUSE ANYONE OF A PROGRESSIVE THOUGHT OF BEING A SOCIALIST,AND THEN STRESS POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.Now I know what socialism is and we do have that in our country and always have in,the instances were it works for the betterment of the society as a whole.SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH POLITICAL CORRECTNESS,BETTER STILL WHAT IS THAT????I could give you what I think, but please from the conservative side tell me what that is.

I think conservatives ought to remember that they dont like being called nazi's and jack booted etc any more than I for instances appreciate being called a socialist,,communist,idiot or any other name that seems to come out refering to someone that would considered liberal.I think IT helps to remember that most people in this country are center right and that and extreme on either side is counter prodictive.I dont want to live in a hard right society anymore than you want to live in a hard left society matter of fact I dont dont want to live in a hard anything society that breeds intolerance,but thats me.As a minority in this country I see hard right as enslavement litterly and the hard right has shown me nothing different.The organizations who advocate hard right also advocate enslavement,segregation,discrimination,taking of citezenship,deportation of all non wasps do I need to go on? .WILL YOU STAND FOR THAT OR AGAINST IT?? you see those things have taken place in modern times kosavo/bosnia places to be remembered.

BUCKSHOT YOU EVER WANT TO HAVE A TRUE CONVERSATION ABOUT THOSE THINGS LET ME KNOW ILL BE GLAD TO.I TAUGHT THE SUBJECT FOR YEARS............I RESPECT YOUR BEING ABLE TO VOICE WHAT YOU WANT,I FOUGHT SO WE CAN DO THAT,I DIDNT FIGHT TO BE REENSLAVED WITH OR WITHOUT CHAINS.......AND THAT FEELING I WILL CARRY TO MY GRAVE.

OUR poleticians have set us on a path that feeds there own greed again history of the roman empire will give us a lot of answers.ALSO THE HISTORY OF THE EYGPTIANS.....Every major society that forgot the masses failed.They failed from within yes we are at a precipice but dont think that this president got us there he didnt,progressives didnt conservatives didnt GREED DID ...and that is not poletics it is plane old stupidty and arrogance we the people let that happen so we the people need to fix it ......ALL THE PEOPLE.......conservative ideas are no better or worst than progressive ideas because TOGETHER they make the BEST IDEA

Your probally right BUCKSHOT but as THE LEFT have the panthers THE RIGHT have there militia and they both both preach hate and discontent. As YOU STATED BEFORE YOU KNOW IT AND I SAY THAT ABOUT THE HARD RIGHT AND IF YOU HAVNT HEARD GET RID OF CRETAIN PEOPLE YOU ARE NOT LISTENING.BUT I AM NOT GOING TO ARGUE.

I DONT AND WILL NOT PAINT ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH A BROAD BRUSH YOU WANT TO, THAT'S YOUR BUSINESS I FOR ONE SEE NO REASON TO SINGLE OUT A GROUP OF CITIZENS FOR SPECIAL SCRUNITY WE DID THAT ONCE AND COST THOSE PEOPLE FOR NO REASONS THERE HOMES ,LIVES,PROPERTY AND WHEN DONE WE SAID OH WERE SORRY..... yeah you lost a million and we know who has your property but how do we get it back to you?????????? BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME that kind of thing should not happen period and I will not condone it.I have a problem with certain practices which others see as ok.....because it doesnt happen to them.nobody WAS PROFILED AFTER MC VIEGH.....WHY NOT??????? I am not a muslim,however I DONT consider all MUSLIM MY ENEMY.THE PC commander at ft hood,and walter reed who DIDNT DO THERE job should have been courts martialed.PC IS NOT THE ISSUE THE LACK OF RESPECT FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE IS THE ISSUE AND YOU CANT LEGISLATE IT....I SHOULD NOT BE DEGRADED BECAUSE YOU FEEL LIKE IT,ANYMORE THAN I SHOULD BE GIVEN PRIVELEDGE BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT. ANYHOW YOU GET MY POINT AND THAT IS MUTUAL RESPECT GOES A LONG WAY.

BOTH IDEOLOGYS HAVE PITFALLS BOTH NEED AND OVERHAUL,IF THEY DONT EVOLVE WE WILL HAVE A PROBLEM BIGGER THAN THE ONE WE HAVE........LAST the things you speak of like the Pledge I have a problem with that,liberalism and socialism are not the same....I sincerly believe that both ideologys need to quite labeling each other it does pre paint the landscape that is my way of saying I am probally as guilty as the next person.......latter have good day.