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The Authorized Killing Of Americans By DronesPosted Tuesday, February 5, 2013, at 1:47 PM
Here is a new "little" piece of Obama Administration doings. This should open up some little eyes as to where we are headed compliments of our current President. The assault weapons ban (proposed) is just the start of what Obama has in store for America and Americans. Read and see what some of you voted for. Make you feel warm and fuzzy? If "YOUR" Government feels you are a threat---WITHOUT PROOF---they can kill you!
THEY decide if you are a threat to YOUR country. We already have the Patriot Act...does the Obama Administration really need another piece of legisltation to make it "lawful" to kill Americans without cause? Obama playing God and working to remove ANYONE he views as a threat. Thank you to all who voted for Obama. Much appreciated. As another person wrote on a blog (not word for word)---history remains the same, just names change. Welcome to what Hitler could not get done! Watch as Americans are labeled terrorists and killed when they do not agree with their Government. Drones, doing Obama's dirty work. What a world we live in! The complete article: http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/201... The "White Paper" Document: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sectio... From the article: "The condition that an operational leader present an 'imminent' threat of violent attack against the United States does not require the United States to have clear evidence that a specific attack on U.S. persons and interests will take place in the immediate future," the memo states." "A confidential Justice Department memo concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens if they are believed to be "senior operational leaders" of al-Qaida or "an associated force" -- even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S." "This is a chilling document," said Jameel Jaffer, deputy legal director of the ACLU, which is suing to obtain administration memos about the targeted killing of Americans. "Basically, it argues that the government has the right to carry out the extrajudicial killing of an American citizen. ... It recognizes some limits on the authority it sets out, but the limits are elastic and vaguely defined, and it's easy to see how they could be manipulated." "Extrajudicial Killing Of Americans" "ELASTIC" "Vaguely Defined" "Manipulated" "On Monday, a bipartisan group of 11 senators -- led by Democrat Ron Wyden of Oregon -- wrote a letter to President Barack Obama asking him to release all Justice Department memos on the subject. While accepting that "there will clearly be circumstances in which the president has the authority to use lethal force" against Americans who take up arms against the country, it said, "It is vitally important ... for Congress and the American public to have a full understanding of how the executive branch interprets the limits and boundaries of this authority." "A lawful killing in self-defense is not an assassination," the white paper reads. "In the Department's view, a lethal operation conducted against a U.S. citizen whose conduct poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the United States would be a legitimate act of national self-defense that would not violate the assassination ban. Similarly, the use of lethal force, consistent with the laws of war, against an individual who is a legitimate military target would be lawful and would not violate the assassination ban." Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
Str8 Talk  - Archives - Blog RSS feed ![[Feed icon]](http://www.mountainhomenews.com/images/icons/feed-icon-14x14.png){kind=icon} - Comments RSS feed - Send email to Tracy Lauric - Login I have lived in Mountain Home for over 11 years now. I love to be outdoors in wide open spaces (as long as it does not involve camping...in a tent and an out house). I dislike Government waste/abuse of tax dollars and "sky is the limit" spending by those that we elect to represent "us." I value free speech when what is stated is factual (as opposed to lies, gossip and un-truths). I love the Chicago White Sox (I never said I was perfect) and the Broncos are okay too! I am 38 years old and married to a guy who is active duty USAF (and a Cubs fan...he is the "perfect" one). I am anti-nuclear and against further desecration of our planet with waste that we can do little to nothing with. If you dislike blunt, this is not the blog for you. Enjoy!
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years ago at work, it was fraught with angst and woe. A co-worker and I would call those days, Hard Hat Days. We even had yellow plastic hardhats to put on.
I think that I am going to buy another hardhat.
Thank you for keeping us informed.
Hard Hat Days indeed. I will have to remember that for the future. Tough days ahead KH I am afraid. Sad to watch this all unfold. Hang on to your "hat."
NO ...LIBS WERE FOOLED AND IF YOU THINK THEY WERE THEN YOU OVERESTIMATE THE ENTIRE THING.
Torture was not OK and neither is this.
I voted for Obama too. And that was after Anwar al-Awlaki was struck.
Hi lamont. Could you clarify the first part of your most recent (1650) post?
Hope you're doing well.
HI DAVE........that was in reference to the president pose shooting......IT could be real ,something just hit me. He is left handed and left handed people look awkward to us right handed folks.BUT IF IT WAS POSED IT WAS A BAD JOB AND NOBODY WOULD BE FOOLED BY IT THATS ALL.I for one get tired of the you libs this and that I for one am not stupid and I get a little tired of the implication,otherwise it doesnt mean a thing. LET them chew on he's left handed because he is. I had to think a minute about 1650(SMILE) RIGHT ON.......LATER
Patrick_A,
I believe it was Jay Carney that inferred the picture was of the POTUS shooting skeet.
As one who is so adept at picking up on inferences, you seem to be off your game today.
As for the photo:
Why isn't there a puff of smoke from the near side port(s) on the barrel? No barrel is ported on one side only, as that would force the barrel to move off target.
Even a ported 20 ga. has enough recoil to make the shooter's body parts move some. Why aren't there wrinkles in his shoulder or that polo shirt or in his cheek?
Finally, a camera capable of so precisely capturing the moment that the blast clears the muzzle is not your garden cell phone variety. Highly specialized and difficult to use, such a camera would probably capture the background detail as well as the shooter.
I suppose it could be a depth of field thing, but personally, I think its a depth of deception issue.
And as for
"target shooting",
skeet
1 [skeet]
noun
a form of trapshooting in which two traps are used and targets are hurled singly or in pairs at varying elevations and speeds so as to simulate the angles of flight taken by game birds.
Also called skeet shooting.
Some people will choose to believe anything no matter what the proof before them indicates.
I think we all knew, Dave and Patty, that you voted for Obama. It went without saying.
Consider the man who flew the drone that fired the missile that blew up this guy (and whoever else may have been within a radius of several yards). Do you suppose that drone pilot loves America?
What are some of the alternatives to dying by Hellfire? We do the same thing to other people who aren't lucky enough to be Americans.
weh nyou get right down to it for the photo......WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE??? I WOULD think the GOP has bigger things to worry about.......this everything he does is open to scutiny is crazy.I WAS WATCHING THE tv late last night and had the displeasur of listenenig to two people on the blaze network(glen becks baby) JUST TEAR AT THE FIRST LADY......from her weight to her smile made me wonder who made the standard for beauty what some white person consider beauty.There is beauty about each of us,we all dont look the same,were not built the same,our metabolism not the same and on and on our commonality is our humanity.......If anyone thinks that kind of garbage endears the GOP they are dead wrong..........SHE IS A TALL ,DARK,GOOD LOOKING BLACK WOMAN WITH CHARACTER FOR SOME THAT COULD NEVER BE.They need to look in the mirror.The kinds of things they were saying were as demeaning as anything Iv heard,,,,,,,I cant tell you how old it gets.
TRUTH is in the eye of the beholder......you should think what you want.IF you think things where fine in the previous 4 years let me ask This question.......who were they fine for????
SOME one called barbara bush a drunk.....when???? MS bachman got heckled by her own supporters,AND MS.PALIN MADE HER OWN BED AND CONTINUES TO THIS DAY.............NO PRESIDENT AND FIRST LADY IN MODERN HISTORY HAVE ENDORED WHAT THE OBAMA'S HAVE ....TO INCLUDE THERE CHILDREN.THE difference is that most who are doing it think it's ok because of the colour of there skin,how pitfull is that??? ONLY COWARDS GO AFTER WIFES AND CHILDREN,AND ONLY COWARDS CONDONE THAT BEHAVIOR AND THAT;S AT ALL LEVELS.
tHE question on the policy is a good one and should be asked......however ask this question if there guilt or innocence was the issue why were they with our enemies??? We only scream of due process when it is politcally expedient.There would have been no due process if and airliner had been shot down and they didnt hold hearings on that........cowards willing to play with others lives, havnt we had enough of that?BUSH GIVING AND ORDER LIKE THAT WAS OK ????????? WHY???
AS far a preserving our rule of law on our soil I am all for it .But we cant have it both ways if you want to be taliban then you cant hide under the guise of being and AMERICAN CITIZEN you forfeit that right,I do not agree with violating other countries soveriegnity without there permission we would not permit....... a violation of the same kind on our soil..........my thoughts.........change my mind.
Back to the subject.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/us/dro...
Here is one from the Feb 11 issue of Time, interesting because it discusses other aspects of drone use that we should all be thinking about.
http://search.time.com/results.html?N=45...
lamont,
It would be fitting to charge those "sleepers" with sedition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition
We'll just take one another's drones out with our own Stingers. Scalia may be down with that Stinger thing. :)
Coming soon to a neighborhood near you?
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/02/fa...
I dont know where it went so ILL say it again.......I have been screaming about sedetion n9obody's listening
The gun photo is exactly on target "pun intended". The point is that we are SICK of being lied to. I'll make this eeeeaaasssssy for you dema-dumbs. Having been an avid skeet and trap shooter for many years; I can explain. Zook is correct that the Pres whould have to lean waay foward to handle that kind of recoil. However, since trap and skeet (seperate sports) each require 25 shots per-round, even olympian shooters require vests which compensate for recoil and provide storage for needed and spent shells. Sooo, this is either a photo op, or the pres has a strange way of storing 25 needed/used shells. Again! The point is that we are sick of being lied to! As usual, you silly dems may ignore my valid points, and change the subject.
Amazing how Feinstein demanded that the people who spoke their mind were removed!
Even though the subject of the blog is "The Authorized Killing Of Americans By Drones", I'll stick with your explanation six guns.
I acknowledge your points. The President may not do alot of shooting and may have bad form.
He gave it a go and, as a man whose every public movement and word spoken may captured for some sort of record, he was the subject of a photo that revealed he is an amateur shooter with bad form.
He went flyfishing up in Montana a few years ago. He may have had a form that looked similar to the one my grandmother used when she chased bees out of the house with a broom handle, but I heard no cry of despair from those who may be at odds with the flyfishing industry.
I don't think this was a photo that was taken to advance an agenda.
http://flyfishing.about.com/od/wheretofi...
My drone would dispose of dog doo. And dust.
Dave, The Pres used this pic for the premise that he often shoots skeet as an example of how he enjoys and supports the lawful use of guns. This pic is not poor form, it is a ploy. And I for one find it relevant because, as I have stated; it is an example of his lies! Which I find parallel to his proclumation that drones can be used for the killing of Americans for....well, I guess we'll see! Lies are lies! Drones or Skeet, or .....
"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else."
¯ Theodore Roosevelt
WHEN alawaki who was known to be and american was killed by a drone we applauded that assasination as needed. NOW WE WANT TO MAKE A POLITICAL MATTER OUT OF KILLING AMERICANS BY DRONE.i'll STICK TO YOU CANT HIDE BEHIND CITZENSHIP AND BE A PART OF A FORGIEN FORCE THAT ATTACKS AMERICANS. The names you call libs for screaming about this years ago now you want to resurect. The conservatives found nothing wrong with it a little while back.
I assume that everything the president does he should be and expert at, are you folks experts at everything you try or do?? I am a pretty good hand but I am not and expert at everything. I LEARNED TO SAIL BUT SOMETIMES IT WASNT FUN LEARNING, STILL HAVNT GOTTEN TACKING DOWN RIGHT ,IN OTHER WORDS YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT HIM SHOOTING A SKEET GUN ARE A JOKE.He would be a lier to some of you know matter what,there is always some alterior motive for what he does,is it possible that he could live like the rest of us.
And for those who accuse him of treason.......did you accuse BUSH??? or was what ever he did considered to be in our best intrest after 9/11. I dont really care what you have to say anymore but I know it's hard but be fair and stop the BIAS BECAUSE IT IS THERE LOUD AND CLEAR.TAke the time to take a look at the proposals of the GOP concerning this nation and give them a fair evaluation more than anything consider how they will effect you, just you maybe that is where you ought to spend some time....dont concern yourslf wether the president can hold a skeet shotgun correctly ,at least he gave it a shot....I know a lot of things that some people wont try simply because certain others can do it.........the comment I get about sailing is "I DIDNT KNOW YOU PEOPLE COULD SAIL,SWIM'" HOW DO YOU THINK i FEEL ABOUT THAT COMMENT?? point being you could care less how I feel about it because you feel you are entitled to make it.quite putting people in pigeon holes given the chance people are people.I play music and I hate RAP when I TELL SOME PEOPLE I DONT PLAY IT THEY LOOK AT ME IN DISBELIEF,,,GET YOUR HEAD OUT.......DONT PLAY COUNTRY EITHER FOR THE SAme reason......no musical challenge in either.
I'm finding it a little hard to follow the administrations policy on the legallity of drones.
Let's see if I've got this right...it's ok to KILL suspected terrorists in foreign countries (US citizen or not)...but it's a bad thing to detain them indefinitely.
Things that make you go hmmm.
THE CAPS ARE FOR EMPHASIS I AM NOT HOLLERING AT ANYONE.......YOU MISSED MY POINT........ZOOK .....TUNDRA RAT I AM NOT SAYING ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER I AM SAYING JUDGE EQUALLY AND CRITERCISE THE SAME WAY.I have always had a problem with the due process business we seem to invoke it as we see fit.AND THAT INCLUDES ALL ADMINISTRATIONS.
I dont understand so much hate and discontent over guns......he doesnt like guns so whatever else he does is wrong too .......give me a break.IF WE LIVE OUR LIVES THIS WAY IT.S A WONDER WE LIVE........MY THOUGHTS.......and for the record I didnt single anyone out nor call anyone a name,and if you think colour for most has nothing to do with this you are NAIVE IT'S ALL OVER THE STAEMENTS BY SOME HERE.NOT ALL BUT SOME.
When i came back from namm I had to be ordered to qualify I didnt want anything to do with a weapon,I remained that way for years did that make me a bad person???DID THAT MAKE ME A PRESUMED LIER,NONE PATRIOTIC ETC I AM AS PATRIOTIC IF NOT MORE SO AS THE NEXT PERSON BUT I AM NOT IN LOVE WITH GUNS........SO WHAT???And if that is how we judge our americanizem what a sad state of affairs........again my thoughts.
I am going to refrain from going where I should go with this.....letS say this for you or anyone who knows me, to sight I HAVE BEEN TRAINED NOT TO SEE SOMETHING IS AT LEAST IGNORANT AS IT PERTAINS TO ME.just because I WILL NOT SUBSCRIBE TO YOUR WAY OF SAYING THINGS AND DEALING WITH THINGS DOES NOT MEAN THAT I dont see.SO what makes you think that the way you see things is the only way to see them.I SEE A LOT OF THINGS THAT TO ME ARE A THREAT TO MY VERY EXISTENCE THAT YOU SEEM TO THINK IS OK.THINGS ARE SAID HERE THAT THREATEN THAT EXISTENCE AND YOU SEEM TO THINK THERE OK.I WILL NOT BE INSULTED BY YOU NOR CHASTISED BY YOU ,yOU CAN CROSS THAT LINE IF YOU WANT ID RATHER NOT AND WILL NOT BE GOADED INTO IT.BEING A RIGHT WING CONSERVATIVE DOESNT MAKE YOU ANYMORE OF AND AMERICAN THAN ME. I SUGGEST YOU REMEMBER THAT, ALL OF YOU.
Lamont,
My previous comment was not directed at you. My point was that with all the ruckus that was stirred up during the 2008 election about President Bush allowing combatant prisoners to be held without a trial, I find it a little hypocritical that President Obama would allow the execution of suspected terrorists. Personally I think that if a US citizen joins an enemy of this nation, then he's no longer a US citizen.
But I would not want the UN over here flying drones and executing US citizens that they feel are a threat. And with more and more foreign nations stationing military units within the US...it could happen someday.
TUNDRA RAT...........SO basically we are on the same page......sorry about that.
I have been reading all the articles linked here and giving it a lot of thought. I say no, not comfortable with it, and it all comes down to word "suspected". We don't sentence people to the death penalty if they are a suspect, and I think it is essentially the same thing. Proven, convicted, confessed? I have no problem.
I have been thinking about something else the last day or so, though.... We are basically talking about the denial of due process for Americans, so I did a search for the ACLU position.... You know, the folks who are supposed to defend the Bill of Rights but go after teenagers who pray on school grounds instead.... Here's a link:
http://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/drones
DANSHL.......the word suspected is very damming I agree I want due process in all cases not just when we want to. MY feelings about aiding and abetting the enemy as declared come from my service I am not for denying the us constitution because once it starts were does it end.I AM TIRED OF THE DOUBLE STANDARD LIBS SCREAMED FOR YEARS AND WERE IGNORED NOW SOME WANT TO USE THE SAME CASES AS A HAMMER WITH THIS ADMINISRATION.so i guess I am SAYING lets play fair. hope that clearify.s I did appreciate your link.....have great evening
F-16's....sold to a soveriegn nation.....remember no weapon sales without congressional approval.ATTEMPTING TO SET A STING OPERATION (that went bad) IS NOT THE SAME AS GIVING WEAPONS TO PEOPLE FOR CAUSE......to BAD EVERYTHING IS NOT PERFECT AND EVERYTHING DOESNT WORK AS PLANNED.
I dont hear a lot about the fact that reagans Iran contra deal helped bring hugo chavez to power.
ASSAULT WEAPONS ......WHO ARE YOU HUNTING???? or is it just the idea??me PERSONALLY I DONT CARE BUT it DOES SEEM A BIT MUCH.ARE we now fortress AMERICA??? AND IF SO DO YOU THINK in a modern world we can stand alone???
Zook! We are wasting our time brother. You and I should stop trying to talk sense to those who have none. Me?....I'll be sharpening my spear.
I'm sure we'll be talkin' soon. Don't make these dema-commies make you feel as if you are alone. There is a very strong silent majority who follow this media outlet. I...For one...will stand!
WELL zook SEEING HOW YOUR FIT TO BE TIED....let me put it this way. I PERSONALLY AM NOT IN LOVE WITH WEAPONS,I WILL NOT HAVE A FIT WITH OR WITHOUT ONE YOU SEEM TO BE AT A POINT WERE YOU CANT LIVE WITHOUT ONE .......THAT SIR IS YOUR BUSINESS,BUT DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF TRYING TO TAKE YOUR WEAPON YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD ME ADVOCATE THAT.
NEXT......the accusation that dems will let the crimnals go and you guys wont, well didnt you just have a fit about due process or that doesnt count.I said it then due process as you see fit,and for me people of colour usually come up on the short end of the stick,To include being executed for crimes they didnt commit.See when we go to court it.s prove your innocent.Your world poletics comment I AM NOT GOING TO GET INTO HERE.
Your obcession with HOLDER HAS TO DO WITH GUNS ,THAT IS NOT ALL HE HAS TO DO,AND WHY DIDNT YOU OBCESS ABOUT THE LIES THAT SENT US TO WAR AND KILLED 5,000 AND WOUNDED 36,000 NOBODY GOT GRILLED ON THAT(THANKS TO THE PRESIDENT),AND I TOTALY DISAGREE.
I WOULD ALSO APPRECIATE IT if you didnt try to tell me what I think you want to ask fine but you dont know what I think.I have grievances against both parties however you dont hear me name calling either .once that happens I stop listening constructively so with that I am going to call this one done.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST....I am pretty good with all the weapons I USED ,I JUST DONT HAVE A NEED FOR ONE NOW,AT LEAST NOT YET.YOU KEEP UP YOUR REHETORIC AND THE RIGHT KEEPS TALKING SEDITION I MIGHT NEED ONE.
Bravo I applaud you Lamont for speaking out and making more sense then those who claim to know everything
HE IS DOING WHAT HIS ADVISORS RECOMMEND,no that doesnt make it right.but other than CUT I havnt heard a thing from the right that doesnt sacrifice poor people,have you??????? I can be wrong.His problem is he is trying to maintain the status quo and it cant be done .THERE MARKED THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO REIGN IN THE DEFEICET .WHAT IS IT YOU WANT SOME MASS CUT IN SOME PROGRAM YOU DONT LIKE AND I AM SURE I COULD NAME A FEW.I'll SAY IT AGAIN IT'S NOT THE PROGRAM IT'S THE ADMINISTRATION OF THAT PROGRAM.Meaning.......people are not doing there jobs just inegibles purged from the welfare roles would make a huge difference and that just one example.Cut out farm subsidies for people who are not farming the land. another example Quit locking people up for years on simple marjuana charges (personal use).quite chasing lawfull gun owners and I could go on.why are we subsidesing big oil???You might not wind up on my lawn but based on some comments here I will have guests,I get questioned NOW of what I have and dont have and how I got it.
I for one would like to see people as people without questioning there integrity without knowing them personally.PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE AND MOST ARE HARD WORKING AND HONEST..I dont like it being assumed that I personally have been on welfare or part of affermative action or have gotten some favor or handout.Why dont you wait to find out before you make assumptions.You have already ercted a fence were you probally dont need one.
MY mind is open always has been and I think I have shown that I suggest you check out your mind your statement" hard right rail" says a lot.I only see people they tell me wether there good or bad I have no assumptions.
OVER the weekend I thought about the drone business again.........so I HAVE A QUESTION FOR ANYONE.....FROM A TACTICAL SENSE WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE,WE CANT SEND SPEC OPS EVERYTIME WE GET ONE OF THESE PEOPLE.So the question is do we let thyem just go?what is it we do? it kinda sounds like a priveleged enemy to me and I have been wrong before.
Some interesting reading about the debate over drones. Lengthy, but some good information.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/11/busine...
http://shorensteincenter.org/wp-content/...
Swiss research video on mini-drones
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-5757...